The MG42 needs to be looked, the allies mg's are dog shit.

If you folks have seen the last tournament games, you can clearly see that the MG42 is supreme in almost every single match, the amount of pressure this thing puts on the players is ridiculous and compared with the other mg's it's just disgusting how good it is.

Ostheer MG should have been a nerfed long time ago considering they just kept nerfing allied MG's to favour axis once again. Maxim especially is useless these days that you can just rush it with 2 units because it is so inaccurate it won't even suppress half the time, has narrow as fuck angle/range and a riflenade is more than enough to wipe over half the crew without green cover. Maxim is a living meme. The setup time isn't that impressive either to compensate for the rest of it being dog shit. Not to forget how useless the Veterancy is compared to Balanced incendiary AP rounds and even more suppression at vet 2. But of course they nerfed the vickers from T0 to uselessness and USF 50.cal to encourage "diverse" builds, yet they wont nerf ostheer builds? Did the same with all call-in tanks, for example soviet Sherman call-ins were nerfed and now the doc is rather useless. But ostheer still gets call in Command pz.iv and Puma with mobile defense tactics thats just spammed in higher tiers of games? And USF Wolverines armored with wolverines /105mm sherman was nerfed too.

Not to forget Ostheer alone has million crutches for mistakes from their doctrines like Tiger ace still and panic pumas.


Let's not forget they also have the retarded mortar that still wipes everything in it's path, nerfed mortars my ass.

Aside from a lot of things wrong in this post, Dragonul actually did bring up the correct parts of panic puma and command p4 being callins. Although it would be very difficult to find a tech spot for the puma, maybe we could have increasing fuel cost for simultainious pumas fielded?

Aside from a lot of things wrong in this post, Dragonul actually did bring up the correct parts of panic puma and command p4 being callins. Although it would be very difficult to find a tech spot for the puma, maybe we could have increasing fuel cost for simultainious pumas fielded?

Beside waving the criticism with a simple ''wrong'' maybe you should bring some arguments on why the MG42 isn't the best MG in the game and the others are sub par, which they are.

Beside waving the criticism with a simple ''wrong'' maybe you should bring some arguments on why the MG42 isn't the best MG in the game and the others are bad, which they are.

It gets tiring to reply to the exact same threads every time someone new decides to bring it up. The MG42 is argueably the best MG in the game, correct. But stating that allied MGs are "useless" is wrong. The maxim is suboptimal to prevent maxim spam. Maxim spam is effective because of the lower setup time, and larger crew. The balance team didn't want to lower the crew count on the maxim because of the unfixable maxim deathloop. So unless you have a better idea on what to do with the maxim without overbuffing it bringing back maxim spam, we're all ears.

The 50 cal is more than fine. It has a fast setup time with good suppression.

The vickers was also just "tuned" not nerfed in the previous patch. They changed around its veterancy a bit to prevent it from having zero suppression at vet 0 and high damage, to giving some decent suppression early and taking away its later suppression at vet 2.

If you'd like to see near "useless" HMGs, please see the MG34.

Ciez gave an excellent answer to this in a thread asking why the MG34 is weaker than the other four nondoc HMGs.

The way I see it is this - each faction has weaknesses.

Ost lacks true "elite" infantry and a 60 range TD but Grens are pretty solid throughout the game and they have great support weapons (and the PAK is incredible).

OKW lacks great support weapons but have an otherwise solid infantry backbone (Volk + SP early game is extremely strong), great light vehicles (luchs and 251 both incredible), and a good tank core (Jp4, super P4, Panther). They're also able to lock down sections of the map with T4 and repair stupid fast late game.

Soviets lack decent mainline infantry. Penals are reasonable, but still cannot compete with LMG Grens/Obers/or even highly vetted Stg Volks and are locked in T1. The real mainline Sov infantry that can compete (guards) are locked behind doctrines and are expensive. Soviets probably have the strongest commander based units/abilities (T34/85s, 120mm, Guards, IS2, PPSH, IL2, ISU) to supplement otherwise average-okay core units (the normal mortar is passable but nothing amazing, Maxim has its place but is no MG42, ZIS is good but isn't a PAK, etc).

USF generally lacks indirect fire but has incredible mainline infantry (like OKW, but even stronger really once they get BARs), flexible light vehicles, and a punishing tank core (HE Sherman is a wipe machine). USF also suffers from important units being locked by tech (AT gun, 50cals).

UKF has a poor early field presence, lacks pushing power for most of the game, lacks mobile indirect fire, lacks infantry snares (except in 1 doctrine), but has a disgusting late game arsenal (commandos, double upgunned 5 man tommies, great AT gun, etc).

So really the argument you're making could be made about any faction, just pick a different unit.

Why are Guards so good but Pgrens are so average?
Why is the Ost mortar so good but the USF mortar so average?
Why is the PAK so good but the USF At gun so bad?
Etc

Grass is always greener, focus on the strengths of OKW if that's the Axis faction you want to play (early aggression/MP efficient infantry, great light vehicles, and a great late game if you can keep stuff alive). Good luck vs UKF and Sovs as OKW though

All I don't understand about the 42 is the price. It has no business costing the same as the maxim which is both inferior in performance and locked behind tech.

I think all the MGs are in a good performance spot, but the 42 should be 280mp like the Vickers and .50

All I don't understand about the 42 is the price. It has no business costing the same as the maxim which is both inferior in performance and locked behind tech.

I think all the MGs are in a good performance spot, but the 42 should be 280mp like the Vickers and .50

Sounds reasonable. Maybe 270 instead of 280.

Personally I think that most of the mainline units and core aspects of the game are balanced for the most part and the majority of disparity can be fixed by adjusting price instead of performance.

Vickers is 260 mp isn’t it?

And Ost needs the MG42 because Grens are the weakest early game infantry squad. Good luck against Cons, Rifles, and Sections without the MG42.

Maxims are still great. Better than the MG42 in some ways, most notably survivability.

I mean it suppresses in 1 volley making it hard to move out of its LOS and then pens on third volley. If you don't know its there you its practically an insta-retreat for anyone in its line of fire.

Not to mention it does a decent amount of damage, costs relatively cheap and is in t0

I'm all for smoke and flank but its field of fire as well makes it hard to move around let alone smoke as it fires outside of its arc due to the arc actually being further forward at the tip of the barrel.

I'd suggest a suppression tone down to reduce the insta pen but keep the long term pin idea in place. Its just so hard to leave it arc.

I mean it suppresses in 1 volley making it hard to move out of its LOS and then pens on third volley. If you don't know its there you its practically an insta-retreat for anyone in its line of fire.

Not to mention it does a decent amount of damage, costs relatively cheap and is in t0

I'm all for smoke and flank but its field of fire as well makes it hard to move around let alone smoke as it fires outside of its arc due to the arc actually being further forward at the tip of the barrel.

I'd suggest a suppression tone down to reduce the insta pen but keep the long term pin idea in place. Its just so hard to leave it arc.

So smoke on top of the MG. It could have a 360 degree arc, but if the smoke is on top of the MG it still can't shoot.

If you folks have seen the last tournament games, you can clearly see that the MG42 is supreme in almost every single match, the amount of pressure this thing puts on the players is ridiculous and compared with the other mg's it's just disgusting how good it is.

Ostheer MG should have been a nerfed long time ago considering they just kept nerfing allied MG's to favour axis once again. Maxim especially is useless these days that you can just rush it with 2 units because it is so inaccurate it won't even suppress half the time, has narrow as fuck angle/range and a riflenade is more than enough to wipe over half the crew without green cover. Maxim is a living meme. The setup time isn't that impressive either to compensate for the rest of it being dog shit. Not to forget how useless the Veterancy is compared to Balanced incendiary AP rounds and even more suppression at vet 2. But of course they nerfed the vickers from T0 to uselessness and USF 50.cal to encourage "diverse" builds, yet they wont nerf ostheer builds? Did the same with all call-in tanks, for example soviet Sherman call-ins were nerfed and now the doc is rather useless. But ostheer still gets call in Command pz.iv and Puma with mobile defense tactics thats just spammed in higher tiers of games? And USF Wolverines armored with wolverines /105mm sherman was nerfed too.

Not to forget Ostheer alone has million crutches for mistakes from their doctrines like Tiger ace still and panic pumas.


Let's not forget they also have the retarded mortar that still wipes everything in it's path, nerfed mortars my ass.

the mg42 is strong, but I think this is more of a matter of the other mg under performing.

if I managed to capture an allied mg as the german, they struggle to keep up again late game upgrade allied infantry.

Vickers is 260 mp isn’t it?

And Ost needs the MG42 because Grens are the weakest early game infantry squad. Good luck against Cons, Rifles, and Sections without the MG42.

Maxims are still great. Better than the MG42 in some ways, most notably survivability.

I think this is not true anymore. We've seen many good players just not building the HMG42 early game and still being really effective.
All allied early game have been nerfed in different ways lately bringing more diversity. Mobile defense not being anymore a panic button shows how Ostheer compete really well early game.
Watch GCS2 Quali 1 Round 1: CreativeName vs Refero G2, Not building HMG42 and still a solid early game for the Ostheer player who will win the game.

I think this is not true anymore. We've seen many good players just not building the HMG42 early game and still being really effective.
All allied early game have been nerfed in different ways lately bringing more diversity. Mobile defense not being anymore a panic button shows how Ostheer compete really well early game.
Watch GCS2 Quali 1 Round 1: CreativeName vs Refero G2, Not building HMG42 and still a solid early game for the Ostheer player who will win the game.

Well I would say Grens are fine against Cons and beat tommies in most situations. Rifles though will likely require the mg42 as gren spam gets face rolled by rifles typically. \

IMO worst early game infantry is Tommies by a long shot. 280 horrendous movement accuracy, low rof outside cover and super inflexible.

Let's not forget that suppression performance isn't the only factor for MP cost.
The Vickers can spot for itself in garrisons which is a pretty huge deal, and it does very good damage. The Maxim does good damage too, and has a 6 man crew that can be very hard to wipe. Both will win in a straight up fight against the MG-42 as well.

If there is one HMG that has a big cost-performance deficit it's the MG-34. While its bad performance is justified within the OKW roster it shouldn't cost as much as 250 MP.

The MG42 needs to be looked, the allies mg's are dog shit.

no

Vickers is 260 mp isn’t it?

Yes, just checked the march patchnotes in the log, my mistake.

And Ost needs the MG42 because Grens are the weakest early game infantry squad. Good luck against Cons, Rifles, and Sections without the MG42..

Yeah I don't think anyone is suggesting it be seriously delayed. I just think it should cost more than the maxim. Maxim might be better at some things, but the MG42 is definitively better at the job of an MG. Blatantly faster suppression and wider arc. To me that's far more valuable in the early game when you're trying to establish some map control.

Well I would say Grens are fine against Cons and beat tommies in most situations. Rifles though will likely require the mg42 as gren spam gets face rolled by rifles typically. \

IMO worst early game infantry is Tommies by a long shot. 280 horrendous movement accuracy, low rof outside cover and super inflexible.

The thing about Tommies is that they don't really operate at an 'optimal' range. It's all about cover for them. A squad of tommies is nearly as effective at close range as they are at long range, both in and out of cover.

So while every other faction's infantry are maneuvering to get to their optimal range, (typically 'point blank' or 'max range/A-move'.) all Tommies can/have to do is be in cover. They operate under different mechanisms than everyone else.

Early game, a tommie squad in cover really can't be dislodged without support weapons (ost) or overwhelming force (okw). Caught out of position, though, they're as ineffective as shock troopers outside point blank range.

The thing about Tommies is that they don't really operate at an 'optimal' range. It's all about cover for them. A squad of tommies is nearly as effective at close range as they are at long range, both in and out of cover.

So while every other faction's infantry are maneuvering to get to their optimal range, (typically 'point blank' or 'max range/A-move'.) all Tommies can/have to do is be in cover. They operate under different mechanisms than everyone else.

Early game, a tommie squad in cover really can't be dislodged without support weapons (ost) or overwhelming force (okw). Caught out of position, though, they're as ineffective as shock troopers outside point blank range.

My issue with Tommys is that mechanic makes them feel so inconsistent. Sometimes if you get time to get into cover etc they feel great and other times they feel useless as fuck.

I wouldnt mess too much with machine guns, they are pretty much balanced compared to other things, probably would look at something else. On the other hand tho, maxim vet 1 ability has little utility in my opinion and should be replaced with something more useful, like armor piercing rounds.

The thing about Tommies is that they don't really operate at an 'optimal' range. It's all about cover for them. A squad of tommies is nearly as effective at close range as they are at long range, both in and out of cover.

So while every other faction's infantry are maneuvering to get to their optimal range, (typically 'point blank' or 'max range/A-move'.) all Tommies can/have to do is be in cover. They operate under different mechanisms than everyone else.

Early game, a tommie squad in cover really can't be dislodged without support weapons (ost) or overwhelming force (okw). Caught out of position, though, they're as ineffective as shock troopers outside point blank range.

err no. The cover penalty barely affect the Lee enfield, and the weapon do get better dps at close range, just not good enough. (The grenadier's k98k have better close range dps than the lee enfield)

My issue with Tommys is that mechanic makes them feel so inconsistent. Sometimes if you get time to get into cover etc they feel great and other times they feel useless as fuck.

the cover penalty mostly affect the bren and piat

Let's not forget that suppression performance isn't the only factor for MP cost.
The Vickers can spot for itself in garrisons which is a pretty huge deal, and it does very good damage. The Maxim does good damage too, and has a 6 man crew that can be very hard to wipe. Both will win in a straight up fight against the MG-42 as well.

If there is one HMG that has a big cost-performance deficit it's the MG-34. While its bad performance is justified within the OKW roster it shouldn't cost as much as 250 MP.

The vicker get bonus sight and range. the mg42 get unit eraser with their AP round. Remember that the mg42 AP round also double the mg42's damage.

however, mg42 get +20% suppression at vet 2 while the vicker get +20% penetration. the penetration bonus is frankly extremely niche at best and useless at worst.