Dealing with Pios > Scout Cars

So, I've been seeing this a bit lately, and it's been quite frustrating. Pioneers in enough numbers can take out capping Conscript squads, and the 222 is a good and fairly quick compliment.

T2 seems to work, but my inclination in the game at this point is to go t1 (for sipers, Penals and Scout Cars) into either t3 or t4 depending on the situation. T2 is IMO more viable now after the patch, but it's not really my go-to at this point.

Is the best way to go about this to simply hold off producing either t1 or t2 until you see whether they're building MGs or spamming Pios? Or is there a way to take more of an aggressive stance in the early game and punish them for spamming Pios?

So, I've been seeing this a bit lately, and it's been quite frustrating. Pioneers in enough numbers can take out capping Conscript squads, and the 222 is a good and fairly quick compliment.

T2 seems to work, but my inclination in the game at this point is to go t1 (for sipers, Penals and Scout Cars) into either t3 or t4 depending on the situation. T2 is IMO more viable now after the patch, but it's not really my go-to at this point.

Is the best way to go about this to simply hold off producing either t1 or t2 until you see whether they're building MGs or spamming Pios? Or is there a way to take more of an aggressive stance in the early game and punish them for spamming Pios?

You can't counter this useless strat?

You can't counter this useless strat?

you can't give useful advice?

is there a code for a breaking line? 

now onto wayward:

funnyly enough i would avice porygon strat on this tread.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/5365/strat-the-motherland-needs-no-strat.-just-go-and-fight

1)are you making enough conscripts? i have a rule of 4 conscripts minimum before branching out on other kinds of infantry.
2)if the scout cars are microed well. some times i get in cover. and shoot from far. it keeps the conscripts alive while they chip damage to the scout car, also giving me time to outnumber him with conscripts. and reinforce the ones in cover.
3) you can force engagements by going to cutoff points deep into his territory. he wont be able to fight you off with pioneers. once you cap establish a secure zone (just to hold the point while you start capping back the zones you left behind.

You can't counter this useless strat?

Thanks for that. Guess I somehow managed to personally insult you by asking for advice? Geez.

the topic maker must have an IQ of monkey. The answer for your question is very simple: Guards. noob

Ok geez. What the heck is up with people? If asking for advice on a strategies forum is so frowned upon, I can certainly just go elsewhere. I guess newcomers just aren't welcome here, huh?

If anyone had bothered to read my post instead of just saying "zomg idiot newb pls die" I was attempting to discuss the relative merits of T1 vs T2 in dealing with Pio spam, then Scout Car spam shortly afterwards. I'm sorry that sort of thing isn't welcome on, god dammit, a STRATEGY forum.

Guess my well paying job and wife and kids are getting in the way of me being a l337 pr0 like Polygon and akosi.

Seriously, if this is the way you all treat a simple request for discussion, it's clear to me Relic's not the one standing in the way of this game's success.

To be honest, o l337 gamers who cannot be bothered to be polite or even read an entire post before spewing derision, I encountered this a couple times in 2v2 matches, and it threw me off a but. Shit, in a pinch you can take out a scout car with 2 conscript squads. I just thought "hey it'd be neat to see how I can be more proactive against Pio/scout spam!" didn't realize asking a question would get me shit all over by this forum's denizens. Silly me.

Ps thanks for taking the time to respond undostrescuatro. I appreciate it.

EDIT - if questions like this are so unwelcome, could someone just delete this thread please?

I would suggest building 3-4 conscript squads. If you're not seeing grenadiers or MGs at all, and suspect pios/scout cars, consider skipping molotovs and going for AT nades first. Keep your conscripts near each other, but not blobbed. 1 AT nade + small arms fire beats a scout car.

I would follow up by picking a guards doctrine and building T1. If he went T2, there will surely be PGrens. Float manpower after you have 4 conscripts and AT nades. If you're dealing with more scout cars and half tracks than you can handle, grab guards. If you've been killing vehicles just fine, expect PGrens. Build two snipers, keep them together near your conscripts. PGrens walk in, start sniping. He either loses the whole squad after 2 volleys or retreats and the manpower bleed begins. Penals and scout cars dont do you much good, but 2 snipers put a LOT of work in.

At this point, you have a choice between T3 and T4. My rule of thumb is this: If I've dominated the map and feel like I have a huge fuel advantage, I go T3 and rush a T34. If you're ahead, this will keep you ahead because it can deal with infantry whereas an SU-85 can't. If the fuel/map control remained fairly even, go T4 and get an su-85.

Oh, and punish him if he retreats. Attack cut offs, steal as much map control as you can. (This is every game though)

Hope that helped!

Excellent Killhon, thanks! Based on your and undostrescuatro's statements, I'll be looking into the numbers of conscripts I'm building... My thought is that it is indeed too low and my early game is being thrown off because of that fact.

I appreciate you taking the time to post a constructive response.

Ok geez. What the heck is up with people? If asking for advice on a strategies forum is so frowned upon, I can certainly just go elsewhere. I guess newcomers just aren't welcome here, huh?

If anyone had bothered to read my post instead of just saying "zomg idiot newb pls die" I was attempting to discuss the relative merits of T1 vs T2 in dealing with Pio spam, then Scout Car spam shortly afterwards. I'm sorry that sort of thing isn't welcome on, god dammit, a STRATEGY forum.

Guess my well paying job and wife and kids are getting in the way of me being a l337 pr0 like Polygon and akosi.

Seriously, if this is the way you all treat a simple request for discussion, it's clear to me Relic's not the one standing in the way of this game's success.

To be honest, o l337 gamers who cannot be bothered to be polite or even read an entire post before spewing derision, I encountered this a couple times in 2v2 matches, and it threw me off a but. Shit, in a pinch you can take out a scout car with 2 conscript squads. I just thought "hey it'd be neat to see how I can be more proactive against Pio/scout spam!" didn't realize asking a question would get me shit all over by this forum's denizens. Silly me.

Ps thanks for taking the time to respond undostrescuatro. I appreciate it.

EDIT - if questions like this are so unwelcome, could someone just delete this thread please?

oh, ur new? well then, welcome to GR, er oh wait, no i meant coh2.org same difference

No problem, glad to help!

Yeah, nevermind the trolls Wayward.

If blobs of pios are bothering you, you could try penals. Those things put out massive damage at close range and that's where pios tend to try to get themselves.

Vs. scout cars my only advice is guards. Most German players know that they can't doddle in front of them and will be a lot less aggressive with their ACs once a unit of guards hit the field. Now a days I'm getting AT nades way before molotovs. If a scout car bumbles into button range, an AT nade is instant death.

Thanks Lincoln! That gives me a bit of hope for my preferred initial structure: T1. I'll play around some more with them.

Yeah, nevermind the trolls Wayward.

If blobs of pios are bothering you, you could try penals. Those things put out massive damage at close range and that's where pios tend to try to get themselves.

Vs. scout cars my only advice is guards. Most German players know that they can't doddle in front of them and will be a lot less aggressive with their ACs once a unit of guards hit the field. Now a days I'm getting AT nades way before molotovs. If a scout car bumbles into button range, an AT nade is instant death.

IMO-penals take too long; if you're gettign penals, just get snipers. Then, make your opponent freak out when his 4 pio squad just got reduced to 2 after some conscript fire and a sniper shot.

Scout cars SHOULDN'T give you trouble with at least 3-4 conscripts. A.) TRYYYYY not to fight it 1conscript v 1 scout car. B.) Try to get some support or back up with anyother kind of unit (not sniper, even thou scoutcar does take small arms dmg).

I have been finding AT nades being researched before molotov in my build too to actually do STOP scout cars/ Half-tracks.

Guards are good, but it tells your opponent: "OK, he went the 1 of the 2 doctrines that have guards in them!". Things i've been finding bad with guards are, they need to sit still to shoot their DP & PTRS guns, which slows down mobility and increase vunerablity. So a well-micro'ed scout car(s) and Half-track(s) can still give some trouble to guards too.

TLDR; get at nade quicker. Don't be afraid of scout cars w/AT nades. Focus on paying attention to your units. Make sure they are not idle (shift-click is your friend).

So, I've been seeing this a bit lately, and it's been quite frustrating. Pioneers in enough numbers can take out capping Conscript squads, and the 222 is a good and fairly quick compliment.

T2 seems to work, but my inclination in the game at this point is to go t1 (for sipers, Penals and Scout Cars) into either t3 or t4 depending on the situation. T2 is IMO more viable now after the patch, but it's not really my go-to at this point.

Is the best way to go about this to simply hold off producing either t1 or t2 until you see whether they're building MGs or spamming Pios? Or is there a way to take more of an aggressive stance in the early game and punish them for spamming Pios?

Wayward, I would strongly suggest you not just blindly get AT nades as quick as possible. I would take a wait and see attitude when it comes to getting the AT nade upgrade. I typically go 3 conscripts and get Molotovs as quick as possible. The early advantage from denying building use and taking out weapon support teams is key to not getting yourself into a vehicle rush headache later on.

The AT nade upgrade is cheap enough and upgrades fast enough that you can select the upgrade as soon as you see the first vehicle out. You should be laying out early mines that will punish the Ostheer player for not holding map territory.

If you want to see just how heavily I suggest mining, I do have a replay up shoutcasted by ImperialDane (Propagandacaster on YouTube @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aiu_Msk0gk) that shows what I'm talking about. Also, use the hell out of trip wire mines that Soviet Infantry get at Vet 1.

IMO-penals take too long; if you're gettign penals, just get snipers. Then, make your opponent freak out when his 4 pio squad just got reduced to 2 after some conscript fire and a sniper shot.

Scout cars SHOULDN'T give you trouble with at least 3-4 conscripts. A.) TRYYYYY not to fight it 1conscript v 1 scout car. B.) Try to get some support or back up with anyother kind of unit (not sniper, even thou scoutcar does take small arms dmg).

I have been finding AT nades being researched before molotov in my build too to actually do STOP scout cars/ Half-tracks.

Guards are good, but it tells your opponent: "OK, he went the 1 of the 2 doctrines that have guards in them!". Things i've been finding bad with guards are, they need to sit still to shoot their DP & PTRS guns, which slows down mobility and increase vunerablity. So a well-micro'ed scout car(s) and Half-track(s) can still give some trouble to guards too.

TLDR; get at nade quicker. Don't be afraid of scout cars w/AT nades. Focus on paying attention to your units. Make sure they are not idle (shift-click is your friend).

Getting two snipers is excessive early on. You sacrifice a great amount of map control, which is absolutely a major strength of Soviets early on, and will set yourself up for great pain if your snipers ever get caught out in the open by a roving scout car. I don't recommend at all getting a sniper before having at least 3 conscripts on the field to at least screen the sniper from infantry and possible early scout cars.

Checked out that game of yours Rooster, awesome. I'm impressed that you were ablle to walk that PiZ right into the flammentrack's face and send it to hell. You did it without guards as well. I have to get a lot better with my AT gun use. Mine almost always get circle strafed to a fine paste .

In 4v4 mass pios can become trouble. I say 4 cons + guard + early t70 counters em.

I actually tried playing germans skipping T1, pio+222 spam, and it's a high risk strat:
if your conscripts are outnumbered by pios just go cap something else, denying fuel will slow down sc spam, denying ammo will prevent upgunning and reduce pgrens bundle nades, be aware of this since it will influence what you will see fielded afterwards.

vs 222s at long distance if you keep the conscripts in cover they will take very little damage.

It's very important for the german to get a lot of infantry kills with the scout cars at this moment so he might get frustrated and push them a little too forward in AT nade range, just stay in cover and wait for this moment.

if scout cars don't succeed his only choice will be to spam pgrens, so stop spamming conscripts and remember that there are no fausts around so your m3s will have free reign over unsupported pios and pgs (just keep conscripts at the back ready to nade chasing upgunned scs).

Checked out that game of yours Rooster, awesome. I'm impressed that you were ablle to walk that PiZ right into the flammentrack's face and send it to hell. You did it without guards as well. I have to get a lot better with my AT gun use. Mine almost always get circle strafed to a fine paste .

The only reason I got it is because I was using the TrueSight mechanism to shield my AT gun from view of the Flame Thrower. Got off a quick blast and that turned the tide. Your AT guns won't get circle strafed if you have infantry to back it up. A quick AT nade will always make them think twice.