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Lienne Forrest

17 Jun 2018, 16:34 PM
#1
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

From my post about Port of Hamburg:


1. SOUTH TO NORTH FLANKS


2. NORTH TO SOUTH FLANKS

The north has many more flanks possible. The north has two more paths to get behind an MG. Once they are behind the MG, there are two hedgerow sight blockers creating even more flanking options. Not to mention if the units are CQC they will be right on top of the MG before it even sees them. The southern flank path can be guarded my a single MG or mine. The top would require at least three MGs to do a decent job. And I skipped the far right side river flanks. So add one to each :)

Edit: Notice also that all of the large areas to fight in are North of the tracks. Meaning, if its an even fight, you are in your base. GG.
18 Jun 2018, 20:58 PM
#2
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

I also think the 3rd train car in mid needs to be removed. This train car creates pathing nightmares once tanks hit the field. There are usually a few team weapons in this area the tanks also have to move around. To keep the path clear, teams must move further back. Which limits the area to hide during artillery strikes.

Removing some of the trees (bottom right of pic) would allow similar/mirrored access to the area.

18 Jun 2018, 21:06 PM
#3
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

The far southern(left) passage (below left VP) needs to be opened up. Some vehicles can get thru. Some can not. It almost seems random when vehicles will choose to go that way.

Remove the debri piles and/or move the tree/groves. I would move the groves back personally.
18 Jun 2018, 21:14 PM
#4
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

Change the building between the left VPs to have WINDOWS on EVERY side.

The top side of the map is very building heavy. South side needs to be able to push this building to get between the station and city which are both usually garrisoned with MGs.
18 Jun 2018, 21:29 PM
#5
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

There need to be a few breaks in the fences outside the north west base. When getting pushed it is very hard to get to the building without getting wiped in the process. May help low rank players a bit when they panic click the building and their units run straight into the enemy instead.

OPTIONAL:
The little house (blue) shows as a sight blocker which is the opposite of what you want here. It should be on the backside of the house. Or even better, remove it and put trees (yellow, sight blockers) on backside of the house. This would limit its effectiveness and allow flanks on either side.

Good map design would say that all structures would be sight blocked on the side closest to their spawns. So you can fight out of your base, and NOT be pinned in your base.

Should require some sight blockers on the mirroring south side buildings for balance.
26 Jun 2018, 15:40 PM
#6
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36

- You remember of the old version? There not even a LV could move on the left side :)
But after thinking again i agree to this point.

- About your forest flank thing.
South side mg is saver, right? From north you can't flank so easy the south mg.
But the north mg can get covered from 1 single extra mgs as well.
What you think about make here a new path in?


- I agree as well for the kill 1 train.

- I agree about the left middle house to get windows to everywhere.

- I like the idee with the 2-3 trees for the north side as LoS

--> yellow
26 Jun 2018, 16:01 PM
#7
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

- About your forest flank thing.
South side mg is saver, right? From north you can't flank so easy the south mg.
But the north mg can get covered from 1 single extra mgs as well.
What you think about make here a new path in?

A 2nd path (blue) would be good as well.

This change is a great example of obvious flaws that fly under the radar. I have not seen too many games where this imbalance is used. Yet it exists. I never looked too close until I got REKT hard because of it :) Experience is the best way to learn.
26 Jun 2018, 16:09 PM
#8
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2018, 16:01 PMRosbone

A 2nd path (blue) would be good as well.

This change is a great example of obvious flaws that fly under the radar. I have not seen too many games where this imbalance is used. Yet it exists. I never looked too close until I got REKT hard because of it :) Experience is the best way to learn.


I make the deal, with only the blue one. Without the green one and only if it will not look too ugly :)

And as you self said. both side can attack from complete right side east ( alot of people don't know it)
1 Jul 2018, 22:53 PM
#9
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

Can you guys aplly all these changes into Lienne Forest Winter too from AA MP maps?

Because is the same map practically.


Thanks.
2 Jul 2018, 20:11 PM
#10
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm relieved this map is getting some changes. I love two-thirds of this map, but the eastern side of the map (the forest) is just bloody awful and I die inside every time I spawn on the right.
8 Jul 2018, 14:20 PM
#11
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

Another easy to fix item (not super important) is the paths in the forrests have messed up sight blocker paths. The objects drawn on the screen look fine, but when you look at the actual boxes used to calculate sight you can see there is some overlap where you have no sight right in front of you.

The group on the left has boxes that overlap and block sight. The group on the right have an open and clear sight line through the path.


Fights do not normally occur in these locations. But while you have the worldbuilder open you can fix them in a matter of minutes.
8 Jul 2018, 14:48 PM
#12
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

SOUTHERN TEAM COMEBACK ISSUE #1
Another late game issue is the south trying to push tanks into the left VP areas (Green). Most games when south gets pushed out, the game is over. They do not normally come back.

All of the paths into that area are dangerous. Trying to retreat a tank usually = dead tank.
- Path 1 requires slow pathing around the VP.
- Path 2 requires slow pathing around small house labelled Z. Then gets rekt by oncoming tanks down red cover flank A.
- Path 3 is not a good idea as your tank will eat 2-3 AT gun shots before turning left from flank A.

I would suggest swapping out building Z with a smaller/shorter house.

8 Jul 2018, 14:59 PM
#13
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

SOUTHERN TEAM COMEBACK ISSUE #2
The southern base has a hard time fighting out of their base because:
- building A has no windows pointing towards the enemy.
- there is a sight blocker next to building A which forces your units to fight out on the road (red cover) into enemy units in green or garrison cover.

Swap out the house with a house (B) that only has windows on the approaching side. Remove sight blocker so units can fight better on the fence by House A.
8 Jul 2018, 20:39 PM
#14
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742



I make the deal, with only the blue one. Without the green one and only if it will not look too ugly :)

And as you self said. both side can attack from complete right side east ( alot of people don't know it)


Rather than creating the green path, that entire section of forest that it would cross could be shortened to provide a larger strip of land on the southern bank of the river. Just one of those groves removed would give the right center of the map much more maneuverability. There could be a potential for both teams to be able to reverse a vehicle far enough back to escape LOS and repair.
8 Jul 2018, 21:14 PM
#15
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36



I am fine with all your new 3 changes.
Are you able to rework this map by your own?
About all your other changes i talked already.
8 Jul 2018, 21:15 PM
#16
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36



Rather than creating the green path, that entire section of forest that it would cross could be shortened to provide a larger strip of land on the southern bank of the river. Just one of those groves removed would give the right center of the map much more maneuverability. There could be a potential for both teams to be able to reverse a vehicle far enough back to escape LOS and repair.


There will be no green arrow-path. I will go with rosebone blue version.

And i am not 100% sure, what you want to tell me. Can you make some screenshots?
8 Jul 2018, 22:03 PM
#17
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Sure.



This would help with units moving east-west without having to cross/enter the river now that there'd be the blue path. It'd just be a matter of pulling back the trees so that a squad of infantry could move across without an entity getting snagged in the water.

Also, a "few" other suggestions for Rosbone :D

8 Jul 2018, 22:43 PM
#18
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36

Sure.



This would help with units moving east-west without having to cross/enter the river now that there'd be the blue path. It'd just be a matter of pulling back the trees so that a squad of infantry could move across without an entity getting snagged in the water.

Also, a "few" other suggestions for Rosbone :D



- I am fine with the forest thing.
- About your other suggestion i have to think first; its late already. And you saw thread #3 ?
9 Jul 2018, 03:10 AM
#19
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Probably not as I don't know what you mean by "thread #3"?
9 Jul 2018, 04:44 AM
#20
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2

Probably not as I don't know what you mean by "thread #3"?

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