Penal Batalions

Anyone else getting the impression that Penal Batalions are just conscripts with higher rate of fire and damage but without merge,Ooorah! and proper anti-tank capabilities?they are good anti-infantry but that's it...
Also I observed that when they throw a satchel charge they don't clear the blast radius.
Had this game when everytime I used satchel charge they just stood there waiting to be blasted away and then had to retreat them because they had 3 or 2 members left in the team...Can't they give a little range to that thing?
Also everytime I started with penals the game ended in a disastrous way...for me and my team
Opinions please

yeah, penals are weird. they should have oora and be able to build sandbags.

Penal Batalions are just conscripts with higher rate of fire and damage but without merge,Ooorah! and proper anti-tank capabilities?they are good anti-infantry but that's it...

That could be entered into the games unit description box for Penals, word for word.

I recommend substituting the Flamer upgrade with a PTRS upgrade, to open up more non-Guard light AT options.

Wouldn't overshadow Guard, since they have 1.5 armor and DT upgrade.

I recommend substituting the Flamer upgrade with a PTRS upgrade, to open up more non-Guard light AT options.

Wouldn't overshadow Guard, since they have 1.5 armor and DT upgrade.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Yeah weird upgrade with that flamer...if I need flamers I build engineers,but that isn't really my play-style
@Nullist awesome ideea to have PTRS or DP...or any other weapon,didn't understand why give DP to Guards in the first place,they loaded them with 3 different weapons,LoL?
I like how Penals chew infantry from distance but that is all they can do...I can't flank because no Oorah!,can't merge and when I use satchel they don't clear blast radius and sometimes this kills my entire squad ...don't really understand their role...
off-Topic: Oh and Guards design looks like Superman with that cape thingy,I thought all Soviet infantry wore(almost) the same equipment

Penals are just terrible. They will actually lose to a lmg gren squad 1v1 (without flamer upgrade) even though they cost 50% more and don't have AT nades or orrrah.

With the flamer upgrade, it's a complete tossup depending on the RNG crits.

Basically, they are horrible cost ineffective even against their IDEAL target (grens).

Their only use is to get very cheesy squad wipes with their satchels charges due to the the terrible input delay and autocover mechanics of this game.

No I would not want them to have PTRS rifles. That would make them even less useful to me. They need their armor increased or cost decreased.

Penals are just terrible. They will actually lose to a lmg gren squad 1v1 (without flamer upgrade) even though they cost 50% more and don't have AT nades or orrrah.

With the flamer upgrade, it's a complete tossup depending on the RNG crits.

Basically, they are horrible cost ineffective even against their IDEAL target (grens).

Their only use is to get very cheesy squad wipes with their satchels charges due to the the terrible input delay and autocover mechanics of this game.

No I would not want them to have PTRS rifles. That would make them even less useful to me. They need their armor increased or cost decreased.

interesting point but PTRS would make them useful against light armor at least...
And altough I said that whenever I used Penals the game ended disastrous for me,I don't remember losing against infantry...tanks,well that's another story ....

My only fuzz about them is their ridicilous timing issues. I said it before, and I still haven't changed my mind on it.

Building(in general) with soviet takes forever, and then you slap on the build time for penals, which is quite hefty, coupled with their pricetag, and you achieve some really oddball cost effiency with their timing.

I'd more along the lines do this;
- Reduce the build time on Penal/T1 Structure
- Reduce Build time on Penals
- Re-introduce the old vet 1 ability for Penals. (Inspire thing) that caused them to get better accuracy the more models that were killed. (Why this was changed in general just confuses me)
- Reduce cost from 360 to 340(320) (arbitary and dependable on things listed above)

It's seriously hard to go for a straight T1 > Penal build, because you're giving up on so much map control from the sheer build time. And then you're in for the gamble depending where the MG's are headed at (or W/E). I'm fine with them being specialized, but I would prefer if they were just better at their specilization in consideration with their cost effiency and timing purchase ;\

It's seriously hard to go for a straight T1 > Penal build, because you're giving up on so much map control from the sheer build time. And then you're in for the gamble depending where the MG's are headed at (or W/E). I'm fine with them being specialized, but I would prefer if they were just better at their specilization in consideration with their cost effiency and timing purchase ;\

Yep that's what I did,as I said,Disastrous Strategy...had to try it though

Reduce cost of sachel to 35 ? I'd like to see it used more.

The Penal Batalions are really good in my opinion, they work well with conscripts so that they can take alot of damage and then be merged to keep on going, they are an effective counter to mg spam, penal in scout car drives right up to the mg hops out satchel charge and you now own that bit of map.

Id like to see them get the AT grens but no oohrah and remove the flamer as the upgrade and instead give them 2 shotguns for close range killing power (i dont know how historical that is) i disagree with them being given PTRS upgrade because to me they are not a unit you want standing still to attack with ever, with the conscript merge they should be a cheap mans non doctrine shock troop not guards.

I think this discussion suffers from a basic mistake that many balance-discussions do these days; they assume the fix should work with the LMG as it is now. The problem seems to be more with the LMG than all the Soviet infantry.

First Relic needs to look at German weaponteams and the LMG-upgrade, then we'll see where the (meta)game takes us.

penal share the same armor and health of a conscript, and it's very expensive for 30 MP to reinforce and 360MP to build, I'll prefer the Conscript

penal share the same armor and health of a conscript, and it's very expensive for 30 MP to reinforce and 360MP to build, I'll prefer the Conscript

Merge.

Merge.

you need to invest another 240MP for merge, and you need to keep a squad near it to merge, and.....you need T2 for anti-armor purpose....

i don't like how the penal battalions are like elite infantry in this game. they need a price reduction, armor reduced to 1, rifles should be standard mosin nagant, and adding oorah to them is not such a bad idea.

penal should probably be a call in unit as well. replace all the ppsh package with penal squad. since ppshs should be a nondoctrinal upgrade anyways.

also put naval infantry in t1 building or something.

In fact just tried a game and won with this opening:2 cons->molotov->2 cons->AT nade,Medical Thingy->T1->T4->2 SU-85's->2 Penals
Penals work well behind conscripts,they have a high DPS at range,use conscripts as meat shield and it's gg ...oh and stole 2 MG-42's,don't know if it's important,the guy didn't know what to do )

i don't like how the penal battalions are like elite infantry in this game. they need a price reduction, armor reduced to 1, rifles should be standard mosin nagant, and adding oorah to them is not such a bad idea.

penal should probably be a call in unit as well. replace all the ppsh package with penal squad. since ppshs should be a nondoctrinal upgrade anyways.

also put naval infantry in t1 building or something.

They already have 1 armor.

I recommend substituting the Flamer upgrade with a PTRS upgrade, to open up more non-Guard light AT options.

Wouldn't overshadow Guard, since they have 1.5 armor and DT upgrade.

I think it'd be awesome if they could be upgraded with either a PTRS or a flamer. Oohrah and/or Merge for them would be lovely, too, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

Reduce cost of sachel to 35 ? I'd like to see it used more.

I like satchel charge but it is rather hard to use without really damaging your Penal squad. Perhaps a minor throw range increase?

oh and stole 2 MG-42's,don't know if it's important,the guy didn't know what to do )

Of course that is important. How can you say a strat is good if you tested it against an opponent that's worse than you?