Relic! Message from STAVKA!

What maths are you talking about? Maths you are talking about works only on paper in vacuum situation.

The game is built on math, code and numbers. Those are what the Devs adjust to create balance.

Its not built on the bullshit personal and unfounded/unsupported personally motivated, incomprehensible ravings of some unschooled, maths illiterate random.

What maths are you talking about? Maths you are talking about works only on paper in vacuum situation.

Where is the maths on RNG, Conscripts being raped by PIV or run over before you can even throw the nade. There are other units on the field as well that will rape oorah Conscripts.

I am talking here about practicality of attempting to throw AT nade on Piv or scout. And tho your 'vacuum maths' says otherwise, in reality it will cost a lot of MP to attempt to do so with very limited success. So yeah, 90% of the time conscripts wont be able to disable Piv engine

that still doesn't change the fact that you're making up statistics. want to put other factors into the field? ok, do what i do with grenadiers to catch those evasive t34s.
have one grenadier chase them away while the other grenadier wait behind the t34 and panzerfaust it.

keep in mind if a panzer IV is at naded and other at is available, that tank is fucked. one at nade could mean game over for a tank so the tank has to constantly avoid conscripts. if you are going to be arguing about conscripts being inadequate at catching tanks, it is a lot worse for the grenadiers. i hope you notice that it's easier to run over 4 men than 6. if conscripts are going to lose a few men, so what? it's war! as for the other side, the enemy just lost even more manpower and 115 fuel.

even if other infantry is guarding the tanks ( which is how a good player should operate anyways ) the conscripts have enough men to throw an at nade and run out of there before the squad gets wiped. unless the germans create a giant death blob ( a lot of panzer grenadiers ) supporting it, then you just aren't committing as much as he is. ( this also means he is neglecting other areas for one huge attack. ) even if he had a giant death blob that you didn't expect coming, the soviets have a lot of other assets that can ruin it. the soviets have lots of anti infantry weapons in the mid game that could mess up the supporting infantry.

so if you want to talk about situations outside the "vacuum" you can see that it's all about tactics and how to use them properly.

All your comparisons are in the vaccum, I said that throwing 1 AT nade at Piv costs MP that will end up costing a game because it achieves nothing 90% of time



I am mentioning ammo because Soviets don't float ammo @ the start of the game when conscripts are semi-useful. Usually abandoned weapons don't just sit around for picking up without fight for it, fight for which conscripts are not capable after first few min. You are right, using semi-useless conscripts as slow moving reinforcement unit for support weapons is fantastic ability opposed to inf halftruck.



Assuming that LMG PG's or scout car won't attempt to deny conscripts point, sound like fantastically versatile and capable unit.

If you like them so much, then play Soviets and use them. Don't compare conscripts with Germans. I would much rather have guards on the field or shocks than conscripts even if it means I have to capture AT gun with shocks.....

Right... Because in the late-game battles filled with tanks there are scout cars roaming around everywhere. And LMG PG? That's not even a standard unit. Not to even mention, I specifically said conscripts are good back-cappers - that means, either behind your frontlines where the enemy can't get to them without going through your army, or on the opposite side of the map where the enemy has no forces. Are you saying the conscripts are going to play Russian roulette and off each other because they're bored of sitting around?

Do you not save manpower everytime you use merge with conscripts? Do they not cost less than regular reinforcing? And what happens if you went Tier 4 and have no halftracks? Are you planning on walking your AT guns and other support teams back to base?

What kind of AT-nade are you doing in the early game that fails all the time? The AT-nade that works 100% of the time against light vehicles? Or are you somehow saying that the Panzer IV comes out in the early game?

What do you mean abandoned weapons are to be fought for? Can you not just press Oorah, click on an abandoned MG42/81mm Mortar and shift-press retreat? Is that so hard? What kind of sustained fighting that conscripts are going to "lose at" are you engaging in with that action?

None of your arguments even make any sense. I suggest you think about what you post before you do it, lest you come off as one of those rabid Soviet fanboys who just want conscripts to rofl-stomp everything when you press Oorah. For the Motherland, right?

so if you want to talk about situations outside the "vacuum" you can see that it's all about tactics and how to use them properly.

Try doing those things in practice and you will decide as I did that Conscripts are semi-useless (sounds all good when you say it, but in practice you find they are bleeding your MP for little gain. not cost effective ATM)

As I said, I will much rather have rifle guards or shocks than conscripts on the field for tactical purpose. Conscripts are just not worth MP for me, other than 1st unit for capping.

Its quite easy to disprove me for Piv situation, just say this:

'WTF are you talking about, I get my Piv engine damaged by conscripts all the time"

Right... Because in the late-game battles filled with tanks there are scout cars roaming around everywhere. And LMG PG? That's not even a standard unit. Not to even mention, I specifically said conscripts are good back-cappers - that means, either behind your frontlines where the enemy can't get to them without going through your army, or on the opposite side of the map where the enemy has no forces. Are you saying the conscripts are going to play Russian roulette and off each other because they're bored of sitting around?

Do you not save manpower everytime you use merge with conscripts? Do they not cost less than regular reinforcing? And what happens if you went Tier 4 and have no halftracks? Are you planning on walking your AT guns and other support teams back to base?

What kind of AT-nade are you doing in the early game that fails all the time? The AT-nade that works 100% of the time against light vehicles? Or are you somehow saying that the Panzer IV comes out in the early game?

What do you mean abandoned weapons are to be fought for? Can you not just press Oorah, click on an abandoned MG42/81mm Mortar and shift-press retreat? Is that so hard? What kind of sustained fighting that conscripts are going to "lose at" are you engaging in with that action?

None of your arguments even make any sense. I suggest you think about what you post before you do it, lest you come off as one of those rabid Soviet fanboys who just want conscripts to rofl-stomp everything when you press Oorah. For the Motherland, right?

It's quite easy to understand what I meant. If you think Conscripts are that good and versatile, than by all means, go ahead and play some games as Soviet and use them as much as you want. For me all those things you are mentioning are not worth spending MP

The game is built on math, code and numbers. Those are what the Devs adjust to create balance.

Its not built on the bullshit personal and unfounded/unsupported personally motivated, incomprehensible ravings of some unschooled, maths illiterate random.

Is that what they use to balance the games, WOW. Who would have guessed that!!!!

So you are saying that Devs have to balance games because they are unschooled (you probably mean uneducated) maths illiterate randoms who can't figure out how code and numbers work?

There is such a thing as stupidity.
We may all, ethically and legally, be equal.
But some people really, just simply, are lacking in the brain department.

If you disregard the numerical basis of the game, the numbers it is built on, and which are adjusted in order to enact balance, you pretty clearly fulfill the criteria of "stupid".

There is such a thing as stupidity.
We may all, ethically and legally, be equal.
But some people really, just simply, are lacking in the brain department.

If you disregard the numerical basis of the game, the numbers it is built on, and which are adjusted in order to enact balance, you pretty clearly fulfill the criteria of "stupid".

agree fully with that. The worst thing about it, these people don't even realize it.

I know this person that is unable to follow conversation. Context, in even simple few sentence texts, is completely unattainable for him, let alone some complex thought.
Poor thing, instead tries to find meaning in single sentences and still gets it horribly wrong.
I understand its not his fault that he is unable to process complex information, like other people do.
Poor fellow tries so hard to look smart and say smart things, but it is so hard for him when he misunderstands pretty much everything.
Instead he says things that other people find funny, or worse and don't take him seriously.
This sort of thing makes him very angry and then he turns on defense mechanism. Goes into overdrive trying to look smart, becoming aggressive and nasty. Not sure does he manage to convince himself that other people are stupid and he is really smart, or just pretends to.
Sad thing is that most people are laughing at him, ridicule and tease him for his behavior. Its really sad situation

Do you know any people like that Nullist?

Yea. You.

Get a life and an education. Its worth it.

This makes me wonder do any of you play this game? Alot of people agree conscripts are useless, except you guys.

This makes me wonder do any of you play this game? Alot of people agree conscripts are useless, except you guys.

Explain please, using concrete stats and logical arguments, how Cons are "useless".

Try doing those things in practice and you will decide as I did that Conscripts are semi-useless (sounds all good when you say it, but in practice you find they are bleeding your MP for little gain. not cost effective ATM)

As I said, I will much rather have rifle guards or shocks than conscripts on the field for tactical purpose. Conscripts are just not worth MP for me, other than 1st unit for capping.

Its quite easy to disprove me for Piv situation, just say this:

'WTF are you talking about, I get my Piv engine damaged by conscripts all the time"

did you not read what i wrote? i just gave you a common scenario on how to catch a tank. the conscripts are among the most cheapest units to reinforce. you may lose 2 or 4 men (that's if you're really unlucky since tanks are very inaccurate on the move) still that's 40-100 for 320 mp + 115.

keep in mind that you are fighting a TANK! not an cat where you should expect to take it out without casualties, you are fighting a tank, a killing machine, so keep that in mind.

you can get tanks of your own which are much cheaper and does a better job against infantry. they are also a lot harder for grenadiers to catch. if you destroyed a german panzer your t34 can pretty much roam around and cause chaos to their infantry.

This makes me wonder do any of you play this game? Alot of people agree conscripts are useless, except you guys.

can't you just accept that there are people who disagree with you, and that you can be wrong? the problem is not us, it's you.

This makes me wonder do any of you play this game? Alot of people agree conscripts are useless, except you guys.

if youre talking about late game, youre somewhat right. they dont scale well into the late game and relic has said this was a deliberate decision. i assume it was to promote soviets using their elite infantry, which is why they are in almost every doctrine.

if youre talking about useless in early game as well, youre very wrong. multiple people have given you stats that show otherwise. a con squad is not squishier than grens and they do almost identical dps to grens. until you provide some sort of stats that show why theyre useless you dont really have any argument here. saying "alot of people agree" isnt a very good argument. youve given no facts, just opinion.

the soviets have "merge" for a reason. merge your troops into elite call-ins ie: guards, shocks, penals. that helps mitigate the high cost.

Merge is great with Penals as they share the same armour value - not so with guards and shocks - you just get the better guns.
Conscripts are not "useless", they just don't scale as well as Grens. Gren with LMG beats them and vets up quicker as a result.

mistake

did you not read what i wrote? i just gave you a common scenario on how to catch a tank. the conscripts are among the most cheapest units to reinforce. you may lose 2 or 4 men (that's if you're really unlucky since tanks are very inaccurate on the move) still that's 40-100 for 320 mp + 115.

keep in mind that you are fighting a TANK! not an cat where you should expect to take it out without casualties, you are fighting a tank, a killing machine, so keep that in mind.

you can get tanks of your own which are much cheaper and does a better job against infantry. they are also a lot harder for grenadiers to catch. if you destroyed a german panzer your t34 can pretty much roam around and cause chaos to their infantry.

I dont know who you are playing VS, but I would be extremely disappointed in myself if I allowed squad of grens to freely come in behind my t34 and then fire of pfaust at it.
That situation would result, vs any decent player, in you losing your grens to T34 without firing of that pfaust.

Your theoretical analysis and scenario only do one thing and that is, you don't actually play as Soviet and haven't actually tried to put it in practice.

-You cannot AT nade scout car, only promote it. so conscripts are useless
-You WILL suffer high losses with low possibility attempting to AT nade damage Piv engine. Semi-useless
-you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?

So yeah Conscripts are semi-useless and rifle grens and eng are much more versatile combo to have

I dont know who you are playing VS, but I would be extremely disappointed in myself if I allowed squad of grens to freely come in behind my t34 and then fire of pfaust at it.
That situation would result, vs any decent player, in you losing your grens to T34 without firing of that pfaust.

Your theoretical analysis and scenario only do one thing and that is, you don't actually play as Soviet and haven't actually tried to put it in practice.

-You cannot AT nade scout car, only promote it. so conscripts are useless
-You WILL suffer high losses with low possibility attempting to AT nade damage Piv engine. Semi-useless
-you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?

So yeah Conscripts are semi-useless and rifle grens and eng are much more versatile combo to have

you cant AT nade a scout car? since when? you say engineers are more versatile.. what will they do against a scout car?

same with late game. you claim that lmgs, pgrens or scout cars will deny conscripts. what will engis do against that? flamer isnt enough to counter any of that.

you cant AT nade a scout car? since when? you say engineers are more versatile.. what will they do against a scout car?

Sorry maybe bad wording. I meant to say: no player of any decent skill will allow you to throw AT nade on his scout car

same with late game. you claim that lmgs, pgrens or scout cars will deny conscripts. what will engis do against that? flamer isnt enough to counter any of that.

Quote myself: (since you partially quoted me)

you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?

I didn't say that eng will kill scout car and cap point, while conscripts cant do it.

It means you can cap just as good with eng + have flametrower or minesweeper. I can lay mines, repair stuff etc.
If scout car comes I will retreat eng and go fix SU85 with them, and send rifles to deny/capture point. what will I do with conscripts? I can only go and try to cap some other point, the thing I can do equally good with eng squad + much more...
So yeah, Point was: "why would you chose to build conscripts over eng?" I can't see good reason to do so, can you tell me one?