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@Baba, while engis + guards seems pretty interesting as an approach, it seems to me like all the decent Soviet players are still using a few conscripts most of the time.

@Baba, while engis + guards seems pretty interesting as an approach, it seems to me like all the decent Soviet players are still using a few conscripts most of the time.

and so do I, 2 conscripts for opening and 2 eng (works for me, not a top tier player tho)

I usually have at least one squad left by the end of the game (if I win . Still find them semi-useless after first 5 min...

Just don't work for me

No, those dont affect that stat relationship between T34 and PIV AI, at all.

I dont understand why you are talking about charging a tank frontally. Why would you do that?

Move out of LoS, and nade it if it overextends.

The point of AtNading/Fausting a tank, is to disable it to prevent it pushing, or to enable your hard AT to deal with it.
The Nade/Faust dmg itself is not sufficient, and doesnt count as hard AT.

I dont get your point.

Can you please repeat it in a clear and concise statement?

Ohhh, thats why I hate when people barge into lengthy conversation and pick single sentence out of it. (not saying it was you, someone else did it)

ok short version of what I understood from poster:

Previously was suggested that I should chase/oorah my way to scout car and plaster it with AT nade as sound tactic, and Oorah my way to the Piv that is supported by PG's, and you can cap points with conscripts because they can use oorah, thus moving faster (I presume)

what I said:

You cannot AT nade scout car, only promote it. so conscripts are useless
-You WILL suffer high losses with low possibility attempting to AT nade damage Piv engine. Semi-useless
-you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?

So yeah Conscripts are semi-useless and rifle grens and eng are much more versatile combo to have

And I was told this:

even if other infantry is guarding the tanks ( which is how a good player should operate anyways ) the conscripts have enough men to throw an at nade and run out of there before the squad gets wiped

and something about if I fail to win in that scenario, its because German player had giant blob of PG's and commited more units than I did
and this

teller mines does not detonate on infantry, and s-mines are just a waste

(part of the argument is which unit is more useful to spend MP in mid-late game, if choosing)

To me that means I can run up to the Piv that is supported by PG's, stick an AT nade on it and run away before squad gets wiped?

So I responded with answer, of which, a part was "Piv will one shot 3-4 conscripts"

"I just don't see benefit in that (Oorah-ing your way to Piv). For me they die to fast in mid-late game, and even tho they are cheap they drain MP overall. (one Piv round kills 3-4 instantly, before you say WTF you got your self vet2 Piv to deal with)"

In context it means exactly what you said. WTF!!! why on earth would you even suggest oorah-ing your way onto Piv that is on top of being Piv, supported by PG's. That Piv is gonna rip you to bits. All you gonna do is drain your MP and have yourself vet2 PIV in no time....
(P.S. since I play 4v4's as well, i see a lot of that, so yeah Oorah-ing your way to Piv on road, it will drive backwards and waste 3-4 conscripts with one shot on road..


I hope that makes little more sense because its a lot of copy paste and trying to compress few lengthy posts, but I cant be bothered explaining anymore,

2 P.S. I asked question that I don't see how he logically concluded that t34 will wipe out entire squad as sarcastic remark, since he pulled one sentence out of lengthy convestation

Ah, I see. I never recognise sarcasm online, and when I do, I just roll over it by continuing discussion as if they meant it literally. I dont give a shit about sarcasm.

Returning to topic:

With the dmg increase on AT Nade its even more effective than before on ACs.
If you think you can manage it, Oorahing and Nading even frontally is worth it.
If you can peg it, small arms will finish it off.

Aside from that, lurk with Cons out of sight of the AC and surprise it when it overextends.
Its working fine, and much better, vs AC now, as is Faust vs M3s.

As to Nading tanks, as I said, its for immobilising it if it overextends, and as a deterrant for armor overruns. Youll need harder AT to finish it off, as does Ost.

If thr PIVs hang back, as a careful player does, youll need conventional hard AT to face it, as is the case with Ost as well.

I see where the misunderstanding happened, but I still dont really see what the original point was...

Cons may not scale as well without LMGs, but its good to have 2 or so, regardless of doctrine, throughout.
Really need the Nade/Faust to disable armor and keep it from overrunning.

sure its lot harder for Grens. I don't have problem with scout car, i just don't use conscripts for that (it tears them appart)
My point was why would you spend MP on conscripts, rather save MP for rifle grens and eng, a lot better, effective and versatile option for me.....
I just don't see benefit in that. For me they die to fast in mid-late game, and even tho they are cheap they drain MP overall. (one Piv round kills 3-4 instantly, before you say WTF you got your self vet2 Piv to deal with)

conscripts are cheap units with a lot of different kind of abilities. yes, one panzer IV are able to kill 3 or 4 instantly, like a t34 round can kill 2-3 grens instantly, but that kind of stuff doesn't happen to often. the panzer IVs accuracy has been nerfed such much it rarely hits infantry anymore while the t34 accuracy has been buffed. although hit the dirt has been nerfed it can still come in handy since it prevents suppression. conscripts can still come in handy, for supporting weapon crews and keeping or capping points.

The problem with htd is that there has been a spike in the hit the deck bulletin usage which makes htd obsolete as a counter to mgs, also you have to wait for 1cp which takes for ever. Has the markIV accuracy been nerfed? I only know the rate of fire has been toned down, which brings me to another point, that is the su76/stug3 is not nearly as effective against infantry as the t34/markIV and they are assault guns after all.

conscripts are cheap units with a lot of different kind of abilities. yes, one panzer IV are able to kill 3 or 4 instantly, like a t34 round can kill 2-3 grens instantly, but that kind of stuff doesn't happen to often. the panzer IVs accuracy has been nerfed such much it rarely hits infantry anymore while the t34 accuracy has been buffed. although hit the dirt has been nerfed it can still come in handy since it prevents suppression. conscripts can still come in handy, for supporting weapon crews and keeping or capping points.

Can you just clear this for me?

Are you saying that I can attack Piv that is supported by infantry by pressing oorah on bunch of conscripts, run up to Piv and AT nade it. Press retreat, without even losing entire squad, then move in with Su85 and at guns and finish it off?
And it is good tactic because conscripts are cheap, and losing few will not hurt you?
and that I can chase down scout car with conscripts by pressing oorah, chasing it down and sticking it with AT nade?

Either I am not understanding you buddy, or I absolutely don't see that as viable tactic against any decent opponent.

As I said, chances of actually being able to attack and waste Piv that is supported by PG's and not lose heaps of MP, possibly SU85 and at guns are slim, at best. By retreating conscripts, you left your SU85 and AT guns at mercy of PG's....
All you gonna do is drain your MP (even tho conscripts are cheap, can't just sacrifice them) and have yourself vet2 Piv to deal with.

Rifle Guards are designed to come in as call in for Soviet commanders, for that reason. Because they are more versatile and conscripts becoming semi-useless as heavier armor and upgraded infantry start hitting the field.

Ah, I see. I never recognise sarcasm online, and when I do, I just roll over it by continuing discussion as if they meant it literally. I dont give a shit about sarcasm.

Returning to topic:

With the dmg increase on AT Nade its even more effective than before on ACs.
If you think you can manage it, Oorahing and Nading even frontally is worth it.
If you can peg it, small arms will finish it off.

Aside from that, lurk with Cons out of sight of the AC and surprise it when it overextends.
Its working fine, and much better, vs AC now, as is Faust vs M3s.

As to Nading tanks, as I said, its for immobilising it if it overextends, and as a deterrant for armor overruns. Youll need harder AT to finish it off, as does Ost.

If thr PIVs hang back, as a careful player does, youll need conventional hard AT to face it, as is the case with Ost as well.

I see where the misunderstanding happened, but I still dont really see what the original point was...

Cons may not scale as well without LMGs, but its good to have 2 or so, regardless of doctrine, throughout.
Really need the Nade/Faust to disable armor and keep it from overrunning.

Original point was that conscripts are better choice than Rifle Guards because they are cheaper and they can AT nade Piv and scout cars and they cost lot less to reinforce. Plus you can reinforce support weapons with merge. And better than Eng option because they cap faster, and same thing.

As far as I understood, rifles are not needed because you can spam cheap conscripts which are versatile and can do everything better. You only need one squad of eng to fix tanks... since mines and mining is worthless

I am not disputing conscript being able to AT nade scout car if it catches it of guard, or sticking Piv with AT nade from ambush, spamming conscripts and using oorah like some 'I win" ability, I do.

Sarcasm was for this particulary:

Me saying couple of posts before I was asked, by that logic T34 can kill entire squad of grens

I dont know who you are playing VS, but I would be extremely disappointed in myself if I allowed squad of grens to freely come in behind my t34 and then fire of pfaust at it.
That situation would result, vs any decent player, in you losing your grens to T34 without firing of that pfaust.

Can you just clear this for me?

Are you saying that I can attack Piv that is supported by infantry by pressing oorah on bunch of conscripts, run up to Piv and AT nade it. Press retreat, without even losing entire squad, then move in with Su85 and at guns and finish it off?
And it is good tactic because conscripts are cheap, and losing few will not hurt you?
and that I can chase down scout car with conscripts by pressing oorah, chasing it down and sticking it with AT nade?

Either I am not understanding you buddy, or I absolutely don't see that as viable tactic against any decent opponent.

As I said, chances of actually being able to attack and waste Piv that is supported by PG's and not lose heaps of MP, possibly SU85 and at guns are slim, at best. By retreating conscripts, you left your SU85 and AT guns at mercy of PG's....
All you gonna do is drain your MP (even tho conscripts are cheap, can't just sacrifice them) and have yourself vet2 Piv to deal with.

Rifle Guards are designed to come in as call in for Soviet commanders, for that reason. Because they are more versatile and conscripts becoming semi-useless as heavier armor and upgraded infantry start hitting the field.

oh su85s are on the field? that makes things much more easier since the thing can kill a panzer IV within seconds, the panzer IV could not kill a su85 unless the panzer IV flanked it, but if it does the conscripts might be around to AT nade it leaving the panzer IV helpless. now lets look at another scenario, su85 attacks panzer IV, the su85 gets panzerfausted, the panzer IV flanks, the panzer IV also gets AT nade, both vehicles have engine damage, but the su85 has such good turning speed, and can turn away and reverse to kill the panzer IV. if panzergrenadiers happen to be around than you pretty much lost a tank for tank, but that also means he committed more into killing your unit.

panzer grenadiers can be good AT units, but their anti infantry capabilities will be reduced if they upgrade with panzershrecks + the soviets have lots of anti infantry units that can slaughter german units. AT guns, su76s, shock troops, guard nades, katyushas.

if the german player attacks with panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks first than the su85 can quickly get away since it has such a quick reverse speed. one panzershreck does 120 damage, one su85 has 640 hp, it takes 7 panzershreck hits to kill an su85. you have problems taking out a panzer IV? than the germans have a problem taking out an su85, but you don't want to think about that do you?

oh su85s are on the field? that makes things much more easier since the thing can kill a panzer IV within seconds, the panzer IV could not kill a su85 unless the panzer IV flanked it, but if it does the conscripts might be around to AT nade it leaving the panzer IV helpless. now lets look at another scenario, su85 attacks panzer IV, the su85 gets panzerfausted, the panzer IV flanks, the panzer IV also gets AT nade, both vehicles have engine damage, but the su85 has such good turning speed, and can turn away and reverse to kill the panzer IV. if panzergrenadiers happen to be around than you pretty much lost a tank for tank, but that also means he committed more into killing your unit.

panzer grenadiers can be good AT units, but their anti infantry capabilities will be reduced if they upgrade with panzershrecks + the soviets have lots of anti infantry units that can slaughter german units. AT guns, su76s, shock troops, guard nades, katyushas.

if the german player attacks with panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks first than the su85 can quickly get away since it has such a quick reverse speed. one panzershreck does 120 damage, one su85 has 640 hp, it takes 7 panzershreck hits to kill an su85. you have problems taking out a panzer IV? than the germans have a problem taking out an su85, but you don't want to think about that do you?

I don't think we are talking about same thing.

I have a feeling you are trying to tell me that you can still use conscripts in the late game, and I am saying that its waste of MP to spam conscripts in mid-late game. Rather save my MP for Eng or Rifles than go for more conscripts, because its more versatile option..... They become semi-useless in mid/late game

Please watch this: http://www.coh2.org/replays/7830/why-tech-up-when-using-heavy-conscript-opening

If you can't be bothered, it shows me opening with 5-6 conscript squads, eng flame (+molotov, heal and AT nade)
spamming only rifle guards after CP unlock + one 120 mortar. capping and denying resources to my opponent.
I don't tech up at all, but rely on conscripts and rifles to carry me until t34/85.
It also shows me killing Piv with conscripts and rifle guards alone (i think it was Piv in this game, could have been stug. cant remember)
I use conscripts in early game, either conscripts or i go for sniper+clown+flame eng.. depends on how I feel.
I have to be switched on and rested to achieve domination with conscript spamm.....

wow amazing how this game has evolved. unfortunately, some of the same issues we have today were present back then

Flame post #111 invised - and follow-up. @ poster on #111: if you have nothing positive to add, it is sometimes best to stay stumm Back to topic

Why IronRoman is banned

Why IronRoman is banned

Is he? You talking Twitch, bro?

Is he? You talking Twitch, bro?

Just scrolling in this "relic" thread and find he is banned, here

Necro mania...

Just scrolling in this "relic" thread and find he is banned, here

Pory! Do you mean this thread? IronRoman has not posted on this thread, AFAIK

thats a huge necro you pulled off here guys