Relic should see this

Snip snip.

Soviets won games in the Wifi tournament. Sib beat Barton's Ostheer in the final. Ostheer did win in general but not by the same margin the Soviets did in previous tournaments. A few of the Soviet losses later in the tournament (like, Apfelsaft or whoever did the clown car spam) came after really strong starts. I think a lot of the results are exaggerated by Langreskaya being a fairly tough map for Soviets.

FHT is very hard to kill in the hands of a good player right now, yeah.

I agree that LMGs and MG-42s are too good but they actually haven't been changed at all.

I think the reasons for the balance swing this patch are that A) Ostheer players were getting much better against T1->T4 anyway and B) the AC change makes the clown car -> sniper build force much less fuel-costing Tier 2 stuff from the Ostheer player and C) that cancelled riflenades no longer waste all the Ostheer munitions.

But yeah, if they fix mg resilience to small arms fire and trim the suppression/range/arc just a tad, and maybe reduce LMG-42 damage a bit, the game will be in much better shape than it was two months ago.

@whoever was talking about Maxims: the maxim spam was previously just ridiculous in the early game with the set-up time and damage and the walking through/setting up in MG-42 arcs. Tier 1 just gave you nothing against it. Now that's been fixed, I think the damage and possibly the suppression could easily be ramped back up a bit.

As a primarily Soviet player, I think the OP's complaints ring hollow. All the necessary tools exist for Soviets to beat anything the Germans throw at them, but they aren't used well, I see way too many clown car spams into SU-85s. Conscripts are very capable in a fight and allow you to outcap your opponent; upgraded they're all the infantry you will ever need. Snipers, with or without clown car support, absolutely decimate Ostheer infantry so long as you support them right. Penals are great against buildings/PGrens and synergize well with T-34s and AT nades (satchel charge is your friend). Clown Cars get countered by 222s but it still has fairly high DPS and can serve as a cheap transport if nothing else; if it gets fausted you fail at playing this game. Maxims are still useful in a support role, and ZiS guns do their job well. I do think Soviet mortar could use an accuracy buff.

In the higher tiers, Soviets are very powerful. The new T-34 does its job well (I'd give it some more pen personally, but still). T70 is a murdermachine. SU-85s still utterly shit upon anything short of Panthers, and even then proper support makes them very tough to kill. SU-76 IS kinda useless, but Katyushas will allow you to smash blobs with ease. Guards are a great unit with good all-around capabilities, and shock troops massacre PGrens albeit they could use a cost reduction.

Now, I do agree MG42s are too easy to use and LMGs should require T2 or 3. Nerfing the MG back to 3 men seems a good idea, and maybe received damage increased if flanked. But the game is really better balanced than at launch, and even MG spam pales in comparison to the sheer amount of cheese Soviets used back then.

german is noob faction ONLY NOOBS PLAY THEM CUZ THEY NEED NO MICRO

TOP 10 GERMAN PLAYERS ON LADDER IS DUMB AND NOOB

go play helpinghan's soviet as ostheer and talk to me about no need for micro. just because whiners play 4v4 and complain when they get mg42 spammed to death does not merit a thread

This whine that germans are the easy mode faction is toxic and pretty far removed from reality. I guess thats why no one wins their soviet matches in tourneys/1v1s vs good german players right?
But I hear this shit multiple times a day in chat in game

so in summary tl;dr GERMAN IS SO NOOB NO ONE SHOULD PLAY THEM SO SOVIETS CAN IDLE ON FINDING AUTOMATCHES FOREVER AND FEEL SUPERIOR

Cons need a global weapons upgrade like the Bars instead of having it in a doctrine. They are weak and really don't scale well in late-game.

MG42 will get presumably fixed by Relic.

to simplify think its just that:
when two players meet when good means a player is better then the other
bad ost vs bad soviet = bad ost wins
good ost vs bad soviet = ost wins
good soviet vs bad ost = soviet wins
good soviet vs good ost = you can't tell

in other words it is more forgiving to make mistakes as ost vs not pro players, as they are less familiar vs soviet powerful tactics and units.

in many of my soviet games i saw that my opponent don't really have a clue what to do after losing early game (except rushing p4) i guess just because he is used to win early game and after seeing isu he
quits. and my elo is not that high so i guess i mostly play against average ost players.

that very much reminds me vcoh as it was more forgiving to play wer vs ame player that is not a pro and can't vet up his rifles / m10 train + AWM / snipe micro. all you had to do is survive and vet 3 inf and tanks.

in other words it is more forgiving to make mistakes as ost vs not pro players, as they are less familiar vs soviet powerful tactics and units.

RTS games with asymmetric factions will always end up with one faction being easier to play than the other. Look at Starcraft, Zerg is definitely harder to play than Protoss, for example, and the same scenario you presented would probably happen there as well (replace Ost with Protoss and Soviet with Zerg).

Thanks for the feedback Arac, it sounds like your main concerns boils down to the MG42 being too dominant early game given how difficult it is to counter. Know that we're working on this issue as well as a few other early game tweaks which should add more variety to early game strategies.

I remember a few weeks back we were definitely seeing heavy MG42 spam being used game after game. After recognizing this, we sat down and reviewed the units role and performance. Needless to say, two weeks later we were definitely noticing more variety in the strategies being deployed. The MG42 remained a serious threat on the field, but had its weaknesses and counters.

Summary; I feel we added more meaningful choice to the early game which in turn made the early game to mid game more interesting.

Pqumsieh, First of all i want to thank you for your reply from relic to my topic. It really is nice to know that, us, players, are heard.

I've bought all the games you made, and i really wanted to add some reports on this game to help you make it (i hope) better and more various than the actual state.

Needless to say, i'm dying to test the changements you've made on the early game .

I agree with some people here, it is about bad play a lot of the time. I am a 100% German player, but that doesn't mean I don't observe the Russian player to see the difficulties he has and things that should be given to them so they have a better fighting chance.

Here are some things I have noticed: Most times people don't use cover, they wonder why their infantry dies all the time and complain about how the other side is OP and how this and that is wrong. One simple rule keeps you in the game. Use cover, buildings are good but there are walls, cars, etc. Countless times I have put my troops behind covers, and when they lose it I move them to more cover, and while doing this the enemy troops are still standing out in the open as they drop like flies. If you have to fall back a little to get better cover then do it. Your troops are useless without cover. I have seen enemy troops rush mine more than moving to better cover. Rushing troops to troops will only get you killed unless your troops have machine-guns. (Both sides can have them)

I think people play with the wrong mind-set. I'm sure many people play thinking "Okay, what is the best way to kill this bastard" And that's good for the over view of the whole game, but when it comes to a small battle for fuel or any part on the map it's not about what will kill the enemy the most, cause that will probably end in your death too. It's about keeping your men alive so they can continue to deal out damage. Try moving from cover to cover instead of just running through an open field. Yes it will take more time but so will having to fall back.

As for the video with the MG42, the Soviet had a good start on him but he acted as if he really didn't care in the end. There were 3 men left in the squad yes, but the health they had left was rather low. Retreat is rather a persons point of view. Some fall back after losing one, others for losing two and some wont fall back till losing three men. Retreating is not the best way to find out what is OP, or what needs to be fixed because it's an option the player makes and that involves risk of losing or winning. I will never retread and MG42 or grens out of a building. I don't care how big or small the building is. That is good cover and it holds ground. To me they will die in the building before I retreat them, and it has done me pretty well with every unit, including Pioneers. If you want to kill a unit in a house, you want a clown car with flamethrower units, drive around as they kill them. It works almost every time and I will admit it's a pain in the ass to deal with. Now if he had grens waiting for you or anti tank that doesn't mean he has OP units or that you are weak, it's just he was one step ahead of you. Double think a move before you follow through. Find other ways to enter for your men and have a plan if it is turned upside down on you.

COH2 is a good game, I love it as I love COH too. I played COH for years and when I heard about COH2 I was dying for it. Every game needs its patches, give it time people. It's not like its been out for a years already. You are never going to please everyone, but I am sure Relic is doing their best to please as many as they can. People want new maps, new skins, patches to fix many different abilities for units. This takes time. Yelling, giving hate or bitching (Forgive me for this harsh use of a word) or anything else wont make it happen any faster. Simply give your point of view to them and how strongly you feel they will do their best. These forums exist for us to communicate to each other and Relic.

Compliments on the host of this post (Arac) he put his thoughts in a much, much better way then I have viewed from others. Cheers to you and I hope things get better for you Russian Players.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope you all have a pleasant day,

SS Panzer Division

my complaints are actually kinda like this.

be russian.
have optional upgrade. hey its optional it means i can choose not to take it. because obiously i can choose to deal with some problems without it. because there is an option its because you can choose!

wrong. its a mandatory choice. do toilet makers ask you if you want to upgrade your toilet with a flush option? no!

hey Russian there is you conscript toilet you are gonna get shat on, are you having problems with the shit? well you can choose to upgrade to the flush option, because you can either choose to flush the shit, or get CLOGGED!.

no one wants to get clogged.

my point. if its a mandatory upgrade why don't just give them to them and remove 25 fuel from the starting resources.

my complaints are actually kinda like this.

be russian.
have optional upgrade. hey its optional it means i can choose not to take it. because obiously i can choose to deal with some problems without it. because there is an option its because you can choose!

wrong. its a mandatory choice. do toilet makers ask you if you want to upgrade your toilet with a flush option? no!

hey Russian there is you conscript toilet you are gonna get shat on, are you having problems with the shit? well you can choose to upgrade to the flush option, because you can either choose flush the shit, or get CLOGGED!.

my point. if its a mandatory upgrade why don't just give them to them and remove 25 fuel from the starting resources.

Would actually restrict your options a lot, particularly wrt timing the upgrades and starting with either of the tech buildings. Right now you can skip molotovs, depending on map, especially if you're getting a flamethrower or a mortar. You normally want AT nades sometime in the game, but the difference between getting them early and getting them late to how you can play is quite big.

This is Nullist:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197971504192

Do not worry, he does not actually play CoH2, or has not in weeks/months. This is why he is most definately in the top5 of biggest trolls on this forum.

Haha I figured just as much. Pretty much nullifies every single of his posts
And then he is under the impression that people make fake accounts just to argue with him?

please fix tank path finding, it is atrocious.

soviet tanks are paper on wheels as it is, we dont need horrible tank manouvreing as well.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.

There is also one thing people don't often talk about. Why do pioneers cost 200 mp, when they can capture quicker, build quicker, build mg bunkers, fix quicker, and move quicker? 'But they aren't as stronggggggggg, you has soviets with rifles'. Wrong, soviet engineers suck ballz, and are only good for capping, fixing and building bunkers. Oh shit, we cant build bunkers, nor do we fix as quick, nor do we build as quick etc. So what are they good for. FODDER. This alone is a deal breaker against soviets.

Haha I figured just as much. Pretty much nullifies every single of his posts
And then he is under the impression that people make fake accounts just to argue with him?

Dare I take it even further?

I think he is making fake accounts to argue with his real account, whereupon he accuses his fake accounts to be fake to win the argument. Solid strategy I must say. All things aside, he is an entertaining guy and I cannot wait until I can add another brilliant quote to my signature.

Im not really that interesting.

Riddler just has a boycrush on me.

As I said, 3-4% difference is pretty sound.
Especially considering it includes open beta and stagnant accounts.

Would actually restrict your options a lot, particularly wrt timing the upgrades and starting with either of the tech buildings. Right now you can skip molotovs, depending on map, especially if you're getting a flamethrower or a mortar. You normally want AT nades sometime in the game, but the difference between getting them early and getting them late to how you can play is quite big.

i am interested in this strat. the only way i see it is. getting an early sniper. and saving 20 fuel for a scout car. to me that is putting all the eggs in one basket.

the other is getting an early mortar. which i consider an unreliable counter. they both seem to be defensive tactics. since you must babysit the sniper mortar or sc. they seem to be slow under advances rather than aggressive capping and map controlling. i would ask you to post a semi guide in the Russian strategies sub forum. the no molotov strat.