sexton: Why it suck and how to make it better.

If one does not like this debate one can avoid it by silently acknowledging that the claim:

"The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map."

is a bit inaccurate.

("Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.)
Which was my original point.

early warning is garbage

compare it to OKW flares and there's no contest. This commander is trash and yet you're here nitpicking and saying it's balanced, well let me tell you there's a good reason why it's basically extinct in decent players loadouts. It sucks

early warning is garbage

compare it to OKW flares and there's no contest. This commander is trash and yet you're here nitpicking and saying it's balanced, well let me tell you there's a good reason why it's basically extinct in decent players loadouts. It sucks

It did not claim the commander is balanced but there is a very big difference in claiming that a commander is UP and claiming things that are simply incarcerate/ not true like:

"Air bust shells for concentration barrage need Anvil"
"Royal artillery has no recon"
"Royal artillery has no off map"

Those claim are inaccurate at best.

If you are actually suggesting that "early warning" should work like "artillery flare" that would simply be OP since the commander would be able to bring uncounterable arty anywhere on the map for 160 mu something special op can not.

It did not claim the commander is balanced but there is a very big difference in claiming that a commander is UP and claiming things that are simply incarcerate/ not true like:

"Air bust shells for concentration barrage need Anvil"
"Royal artillery has no recon"
"Royal artillery has no off map"

Those claim are inaccurate at best.

If you are actually suggesting that "early warning" should work like "artillery flare" that would simply be OP since the commander would be able to bring uncounterable arty anywhere on the map for 160 mu something special op can not.

similarly claiming that British artillery have the recon+off map combo to nuke a rearline howitzer is inaccurate.

The moment british catch an adjustant sector, that howitzer stop being "rearline". The german has failed if they allow the british to fight all the way that close to their base.

similarly claiming that British artillery have the recon+off map combo to nuke a rearline howitzer is inaccurate.

The moment british catch an adjustant sector, that howitzer stop being "rearline". The german has failed if they allow the british to fight all the way that close to their base.

Well I never claimed "British artillery have the recon+off map combo to nuke a rearline howitzer"

I am not sure what you are suggesting or what we are debating here. The ability "concentration barrage" was OP when it could be fired in FOW it has been fixed.

"Another balance thread has been lost in the defense of the Rhodina"

Well I never claimed "British artillery have the recon+off map combo to nuke a rearline howitzer"

I am not sure what you are suggesting or what we are debating here. The ability was OP when it could be fired in FOW it has been fixed.

stop muddling the water with sudden tangential argument.

we were discussing the usage of long range recon with off map nuke to instantly delete on board howitzer anywhere on the map. The british artillery doctrine lacked both the long range recon + off map to do this. This is called context.

Similarly just claiming british have recon+offmap is missing the entire fact that it can't be used on a rearline howtizer. This is called context. Stop taking quote out of context just to win an argument.

Let's agree that British have what's technically Recon + off map, but it has a limit on effective range and thus can't be used on the rearline.

The british's other recons also have range limition. This include the one in engineer (command vehicle), and the other in support (command building). Almost as if the Relic is avoiding the issue being able to look anywhere on the map and call down nuke.

The concentration barrage isn't even powerful enough to consistently nuke howitzer the way IL2 can. The 25 pdr is affected by sandbag and inaccurate without sight.

"Another balance thread has been lost in the defense of the Rhodina"

let's get back to topic before we were so rudely interrupted.

Using the priest as a baseline for SPG, spg have shorter range and less shell per barrage.

the towed howitzer both have 250 meter range and fire more shell per barrage. It is also important to note that priest shell individually have a bigger kill radius. The range of 180m for the priest is also enough for its purpose.

The first thing to note for the sexton is the fact its shell is significantly weaker. This is likely due to the fact the 25 pounder fired a smaller shell compared to the 105mm. The weaker shell will likely remain weaker.

Thus a range of 200-215 for the sexton would mean it fire farther than the priest, but with a weaker shell. Compared to the towed howitzer, a range of 200-215 would still mean the sexton have a shorter range, less shell per barrage, and a weaker shell.

Really, LeIG/Stuka means "only LeIG"? or is it a case of specifically ignoring the stronger artillery, the stuka? Stop cherry picking word.

So then you mean they must be together, where then the price of LeIG/Stuka > Sexton. Therefore they should be stronger than the sexton. As it already is.

The OKW factually already have map hack + heavy artillery in the game. Stop using the axis gear as the hard limit of what the allies can do.

By this logic the KT because of its price was more than fine as a heavy and now should be buffed IMMENSLY. Instead though allies cried because they couldn't solo a KT with a single TD.

You seem to really miss the point here. OKWS IS COUNTERABLE WITHOUT MASSIVE PUSHES, SEXTON + VALTENTINE IS NOT.

The sexton still have the weakest shell of the four howitzers and will likely remain so. The valentine is more expensive than the IR HT and will likely remain so. Is the literal Artillery doctrine not suppose to have good artillery? it's not even up to the standard of the other three howitzer. All this discussion is about what it could become.

As PREVIOUSLY STATED, you can make UKF arty better without creating more AIDS doctrines. If you cannot understand that then I cannot help you.

stop muddling the water with sudden tangential argument.

Pls stop telling me what to do. If you want to ask something of me use pls.

we were discussing the usage of long range recon with off map nuke to instantly delete on board howitzer anywhere on the map. The british artillery doctrine lacked both the long range recon + off map to do this. This is called context.

And what you wrote was that R.A. does not a have reckon and Off map. Both claims where and remain incarcerate, deal with it and move on.

Similarly just claiming british have recon+offmap is missing the entire fact that it can't be used on a rearline howtizer. This is called context. Stop taking quote out of context just to win an argument.

I am not trying to win an argument I simply pointed out that what you wrote is inaccurate.

In addition if your context is whether this commander can or can not counter static artillery pieces it can (but not hard counter them as stuka/reckon can). Actually it counter them better than some other UKF commanders.

Let's agree that British have what's technically Recon + off map, but it has a limit on effective range and thus can't be used on the rearline.

That was my point in the first place. I did not claim anything else. Glad that we can agree now we can move on.

The british's other recons also have range limition. This include the one in engineer (command vehicle), and the other in support (command building). Almost as if the Relic is avoiding the issue being able to look anywhere on the map and call down nuke.

The concentration barrage isn't even powerful enough to consistently nuke howitzer the way IL2 can. The 25 pdr is affected by sandbag and inaccurate without sight.

Well the UKF have some very strong Off map and have I to guess Relic wanted to balance them out with limiting their off map reckon abilities (thy still get very good in map spotting). Although the Commando officer, "assault" and crocodile call in provide off map reckon.

let's get back to topic before we were so rudely interrupted.

Using the priest as a baseline for SPG, spg have shorter range and less shell per barrage.

the towed howitzer both have 250 meter range and fire more shell per barrage. It is also important to note that priest shell individually have a bigger kill radius. The range of 180m for the priest is also enough for its purpose.

The first thing to note for the sexton is the fact its shell is significantly weaker. This is likely due to the fact the 25 pounder fired a smaller shell compared to the 105mm. The weaker shell will likely remain weaker.

Thus a range of 200-215 for the sexton would mean it fire farther than the priest, but with a weaker shell. Compared to the towed howitzer, a range of 200-215 would still mean the sexton have a shorter range, less shell per barrage, and a weaker shell.

let's test 180 range first, after all it shoot more than priest

For one okw shouldnt even have lefh anymore now that emplacements are garbage (orginial bullshit excuse much like needing anti garrisons) but you know when they have stuka auto delete all vet support weps as well as counter other rocket arty its just not enough! Oh yeah they can 3rd health any allied tank as well. I really give up anymore just let okw camp two liegs by super fortress blob volks and delete all your support weapons. Damn its hard to click stg upgrades, i have to build trucks you know!?!?

As PREVIOUSLY STATED, you can make UKF arty better without creating more AIDS doctrines. If you cannot understand that then I cannot help you.

without any actual suggestion it's just a bunch of empty promise.

let's test 180 range first, after all it shoot more than priest

I doubt that's enough, considering the massive difference in killing power, but it's a step.


The concern with Valentine + sexton is valid, but the good new is that royal artillery is the only doctrine to even use them.

This mean they can be designed to work in tandem without worrying about affecting other doctrine. The Valentine tank is a poor unit despite its scouting ability and would need to be revise.

Right now the valentine IR vision is significantly more powerful than the IR halftrack, but the british themselves lack good artillery to actually use it.

the valentine IR should be nerfed (less range, less coverage) in exchange for making the valetine tank a passable tank. lock it behind the armor command if need be. This would lower the amount of synergy between sexton and IR.

why should you have the such range with a mobile arty? where would be the risk to use it, when you could stay in base with it??

ever build a static arty? then you know how fast you can lose it...mostly after the first barrage.

and now play with a mobile arty. you must be clumpsi or dumb when you lose it.

your enemy could only destroy it with a fast attack...which ends often in losing some armor and other stuff...everytime a good deal to lose only one 100fuel unit.

without any actual suggestion it's just a bunch of empty promise.

I don't make suggestions anymore because no one listened anyways. Solution is literally a mobile mortar instead of the horrendious design of global range immobile ones.

I doubt that's enough, considering the massive difference in killing power, but it's a step.


The concern with Valentine + sexton is valid, but the good new is that royal artillery is the only doctrine to even use them.

This mean they can be designed to work in tandem without worrying about affecting other doctrine. The Valentine tank is a poor unit despite its scouting ability and would need to be revise.

Right now the valentine IR vision is significantly more powerful than the IR halftrack, but the british themselves lack good artillery to actually use it.

the valentine IR should be nerfed (less range, less coverage) in exchange for making the valetine tank a passable tank. lock it behind the armor command if need be. This would lower the amount of synergy between sexton and IR.

180 would make a start towoards a good unit, and u know that brits with really good art are op so lets try giving them OK art and see

Yoooooo, so I feel like a lot of people have missed the point of this post and it's been derailed entirely.

Regardless of whether Royal artillery has offmap or onmap or airburst or whether the sexton's range is fair compared to the stuka zu fuss or whatever.

The main point of this post is why royal artillery sucks. Which, regardless of your opinion, is kind of inherently true. UKF is not used in 1v1 right now at all, especially Royal Artillery. And has significant weaknesses in team play, regardless of how good you are. The British faction, IS flawed and unusable in 1v1 especially, that is not up for debate, if it was, people would still be using it according to proportion. Which they aren't.

The main point of this post is how to balance it. Which yes is hard.
My 2 cents on this is:

-The Valentine infra red is good yes, but not OP. It's not that much better than the OKW UHU halftrack and is doctrinal, I would argue the OKW UHU is too powerful in comparison to the valentine as it's stock for OKW. The valentine cannot really be balanced as a passable tank as it will not and should never be as good as the cromwell, which with buffs, it will be. Like I suggested earlier, in my opinion the only buff that can prevent this, is a buff to the MGs like the AEC. Say for example you buff the anti infantry blast radius, unless you decrease the CP requirement it will be useless and that good recon would be too good early game at low CP.

-Royal artillery wasn't OP when you could use concentration barrage through fog of war, it just directly countered LEfHs like it should have done. For 200 munitions, stuka dive bomb also counters ML-20s, and most doctrines have some form of recon with it for very little. The only OP thing was the fact that the airburst all landed in the same place making it stupidly effective against OKW Base trucks which was not the intended purpose. At the moment, even with recon, it still takes 2 concentration barrages to destroy an LefH, which costs the same as a stuka strike, and costs more with recon.

-If you are losing Static arty frequently you are doing something wrong. If you are building static artillery and losing it, they are pushing you/flanking you and shelling it out, in which case, that's on you for leaving holes in your line. Or they are using recon to find it and shell it out, in which case, you should be building anti-aircraft to deal with that. I play both factions and I have never had a problem with losing my static artillery unless I am double teamed to get it destroyed, which in my opinion is fair enough, especially as it's a bargain at 50 fuel.

-If you are losing too many men to the combination of Valentine and Sexton, you are standing still for too long, the same is equally true for UHU + stuka, I would argue that UHU + stuka is more effective as it is more devastating in a shorter time. And that comes stock for OKW.

-Perimeter overwatch, I don't think anyone is arguing that this is good. Although. In my opinion, it's quite underated, they could add light arty support like in tactical support and typhoon strafes and 250 munitions would still be ridiculously over priced. Royal artillery either needs a different ability, like special weps Railway arty, or perimeter overwatch, for 250 munitions, should be utterly the best ability in the game, like tactical support artillery cover for the entire map complete with tank blinding and typhoon strafes, otherwise it will remain unusable, even if it cost 80 munitions, no one would use it.