sexton: Why it suck and how to make it better.

Well, too bad you don't have it anymore then.

2-3 patches ago...it doesnt run anymore. this doc wasnt changed much.

not really...if i count all the easy destroyed lefhs in some games...i could easy build 4-5 priest or sexton. static arty are so easy to counter..but mobile not...so its not that expansive if you handle it smart

I would argue the opposite, You can build an LefH or ml20, 2 feet from your base and it's range will cover all relevant areas of the map, any AA at all and you won't get recon through to it to arty it out and good luck getting a tank there to kill the crew, let alone destroy the gun. Whereas with the short range of mobile arty and their inherent vulnerability to tanks, you can easily dive or flank them due to the fact they need to be significantly closer to where they fire from. So many times have I just driven straight in with a panzer 4/panther/puma and killed 2-3 sextons/priests and blitzkrieged out before they can respond. Even if you lose the panzer 4 that's a no brainer trade. I can often deal with one or 2 mobile arty myself, I often need a teammate to help me counter an LefH.

I would argue the opposite, You can build an LefH or ml20, 2 feet from your base and it's range will cover all relevant areas of the map, any AA at all and you won't get recon through to it to arty it out and good luck getting a tank there to kill the crew, let alone destroy the gun. Whereas with the short range of mobile arty and their inherent vulnerability to tanks, you can easily dive or flank them due to the fact they need to be significantly closer to where they fire from. So many times have I just driven straight in with a panzer 4/panther/puma and killed 2-3 sextons/priests and blitzkrieged out before they can respond. Even if you lose the panzer 4 that's a no brainer trade. I can often deal with one or 2 mobile arty myself, I often need a teammate to help me counter an LefH.

when you build such static gun...you can bet that it will be destroyed per callins arty from any allie player...so no...

when you build such static gun...you can bet that it will be destroyed per callins arty from any allie player...so no...

stop with the Whataboutism. The static howtizer's issue with off map are their own.

the statis howitzer's vulnerability to certain combination of doctrines and ability is not a valid excuse to keep the sexton impotent.

The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map.

you never played against a good player who abuse this doctrine, right? i had a replay where i able to arty some minutes the vp so my enemy couldnt cap it...i defenced it without a single near combat unit..only arty and callins.

you should read the other CP in this doc....they are very good and anyoing when someone abuse them

that's called defensive artillery. It's basic tactic 101. How it is abusive? You're spending munition and unit to keep the cap lock up.

Using off map to keep infantry off the vp have been a tactic since forever. Every doctrine with off map or howitzer can do it. The Festung doctrine support, available to the ost since day 0, have flame mortar, howitzer, and sector artillery. The stuka dive bomb is even capable of decapping vp as well.

...
The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map.
...

That is a bit inaccurate.

"Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.

when you build such static gun...you can bet that it will be destroyed per callins arty from any allie player...so no...

What arty call-ins? no arty call-in can be casted through fog of war, if you build the howitzer in your base and have Anti-air, a recon plane will not make it to the howitzer to reveal it. Yes you can expect it to get destroyed eventually because people bust their gut to do so or they lose, it only costs 50 fuel, if you get 20 kills or so with it and have prevented cap for 5-10 minutes the thing has paid for it's self and you can build another one.

That is a bit inaccurate.

"Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.

Honestly I wouldn't really count early warning as "recon", it only flares 'some' frontline sectors and is totally random and costs 60 munitions, I use it, but only from desperation due to lack of anything decent. It's next to useless really but it's all you have. The issue is whenever you use concentration barrage, you HAVE to use early warning and hope it flares the right place, essentially making your very average artillery strike cost 160 munitions, 10 inch incendiary on royal engineer regiment costs 140 (and is an awesome call-in) and command vehicles can summon a much better recon ability that basically reveals the entire map for less muni.

Concentration barrage CAN be used to destroy on map artillery, but it nearly always takes 2 uses of it thus costing 200 muni minimum if you don't require recon, otherwise you need to get really lucky with early warning or have a friend with recon. It is however the best way to counter LefH's as Brits imo, it's just nowhere near as good as Major + Time on target as USF or recon and IL2 for soviets. The only other ways I can think of as brits to destroy the gun is commando demo charge or suicide commandos and air supremacy which is reaaaallly expensive.

just increase range to 170 and call it a day

valentine should have an AI buff but limit it to 1 like a command tank. But the abilities and vet need reworking so it flows with the rest of the rather useless doctrine.

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.

it's not an off map because it has a max range

it's also weak as piss unless you blow a load of fuel for Anvil and lock yourself out of hammer, should be able to shell FoW BUT british howitzers in base should be more vulnerable to enemy fire and require a MP cost to repair. (or possibly moving them as an upgrade for the mortar pit)

I would like to see this doctrine just ripped up and sorted out it's been ignored and mediocre for too long when you have perfectly good models like the Valentine and Sexton just getting zero use because they have been UP since release.

it's not an off map because it has a max range

it's also weak as piss unless you blow a load of fuel for Anvil and lock yourself out of hammer, should be able to shell FoW BUT british howitzers in base should be more vulnerable to enemy fire and require a MP cost to repair. (or possibly moving them as an upgrade for the mortar pit)

That is actually inaccurate.
"Concentration barrage" has no range limit, it will reach the end of the map even in large maps.
In addition one does need Anvil for air-bust shells.

Finally Anvil/hammer cost only 50 fuel which I wouldn't call a "load of Fuel".

one thread please ?

That is a bit inaccurate.

"Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.

*can be used to mildly injure the area around an on map artillery piece and maybe tickle the crew if you get lucky.

Also getting anvil locks you out of hammer obviously but otherwise lefh isn’t getting countered with arty.

That is a bit inaccurate.

"Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.

you can't use early warning + nuke on a backline howitzer.

Sane people tend to put their howitzer somewhere beside the frontline.

it's not an off map because it has a max range

it's also weak as piss unless you blow a load of fuel for Anvil and lock yourself out of hammer, should be able to shell FoW BUT british howitzers in base should be more vulnerable to enemy fire and require a MP cost to repair. (or possibly moving them as an upgrade for the mortar pit)

I would like to see this doctrine just ripped up and sorted out it's been ignored and mediocre for too long when you have perfectly good models like the Valentine and Sexton just getting zero use because they have been UP since release.

british howitzer cost munition to use. It's just an alternative form of payment and the base howitzer doesn't need to be vulnerable to counter barrage. Eventually the brits will run out of munition unless he build cache, and those are vulnerable.

This is what it means to have asymmetric balance. The axis team depend on protecting on map howitzer and rocket arillery to provide barrage, while the british and American depend on a steady supply of munition to fuel their tech tree off map (25pdr/major).

and 170 meter is still not enough.

180meter work for the priest partially because it's actually got a very good AOE, while the sexton actually have the worst AOE among howitzer. Sexton should have good range and survivability because its hitting power is the weakest among howitzer.

80 damage radius of the four major howitzer, from my previous calculation:

lefh:~3.538
105:~3.667
ml-20:3.412
sexton: 2.250

that's a huge difference in killing power.

*can be used to mildly injure the area around an on map artillery piece and maybe tickle the crew if you get lucky.

Also getting anvil locks you out of hammer obviously but otherwise lefh isn’t getting countered with arty.

Pls use abilities before posting about them.

The barrage comes with air-bust shells, one does need to chose Anvil to have them.

you can't use early warning + nuke on a backline howitzer.

Sane people tend to put their howitzer somewhere beside the frontline.

You claimed that "The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map." I pointed out that is rather inaccurate since it has both recon and an off map.

On the claim you make here, it is rather map depended but in many maps it rather easy to capture a sector that borders a sector that artillery is usually placed and then the flares can give you vision on the enemy arty.

In the end of the day the commander is not very good for 1vs1 games and teammates can provide recon (USF get stock Reckon planes). The bottom line is the commander is good at countering enemy static artillery pieces.

the problem on mobile arty:

you can easily bomb everywhere without to fear to lose your arty.

when i build a LEFH i must pray that the enemy hasnt a off map callin to destroy it with one click. you cant even counter mobile arty effectivly...a smart player would realize it and move it out of the area.

2 sexton or priest are enough to destroy the enemy base in 15-20min..

Ask yourself this, with the valentine in the same doctrine which gives free map hacks, why would you buff a mobile piece of heavy indirect. You not only would create an AIDS commander to play against and probably meta, but you would indirectly destroy infantry company from USF, as the priest would no longer be used. Why use the priest when you can get the sexton and map hacks. I like diversity too, but this doctrine has too much potential to be AFK indirect king.

And how would this be different from OKW map hack (cheaper, longer range, comes earlier) in combination with defense commander's LeFH or stuka?

The Sexton is a categorically bad, under performing unit in every single regard and been so since release. It needs something if its to be a useful unit and if not, it should be removed and replaced with something that is useful.

If buffing it makes the commander OP then other aspects of commander needs to be adjusted.

And how would this be different from OKW map hack (cheaper, longer range, comes earlier) in combination with defense commander's LeFH or stuka?

The Sexton is a categorically bad, under performing unit in every single regard and been so since release. It needs something if its to be a useful unit and if not, it should be removed and replaced with something that is useful.

If buffing it makes the commander OP then other aspects of commander needs to be adjusted.

you dont compare a low range stuka with a much longer range mobile arty unit...or? on most 2v2 maps you can stay with the prist or sexton in your own base to bomb the enemy base...while your stuka must come near to front to hit the front...or must stay in the middle to attack the enemy base.

and your lefs cant move or stay in base. think about it.

And how would this be different from OKW map hack (cheaper, longer range, comes earlier) in combination with defense commander's LeFH or stuka?

The Sexton is a categorically bad, under performing unit in every single regard and been so since release. It needs something if its to be a useful unit and if not, it should be removed and replaced with something that is useful.

If buffing it makes the commander OP then other aspects of commander needs to be adjusted.

Well for 1, any static arty piece can be insta deleted by offmaps like IL2 bombing runs. 2nd, the IRHT can be barraged by both light and heavy arty effectivly since its a halftrack, whereas the valentine is a tank. Is the IRHT scan range larger than the valentines? I honestly don't know their ranges.

...Is the IRHT scan range larger than the valentines? I honestly don't know their ranges.

Both valentine and IRHT have a range of 120. ("the grass is always greener on the other side of fence")

Both valentine and IRHT have a range of 120. ("the grass is always greener on the other side of fence")

Havent the valent a better IRC? faster search, 360 grad etc?