Jackson nerf

Why build a Panther when you can have JP4 or 2 Stugs. But what do you build as USF instead Jackson for AT?

Panther is like a Comet - it's better underpowered than overpowered, because they are not an absolute necessity for late game.

das true. well in teamgames. Actually on topic though, Jackson is going to be fucked if that goes live. It won't though. I believe in Luciano.

previous topic on this subject:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/68096/about-jacksons

recap:

the jackson wasn't meant to have 640 hp. The firefly have 640 hp, but it's slow, it fire slow, and its turret rotate slow. The jackson with 640 hp lack none of those weakness.

The jackson should have had its evasion increase to reinforce the fact it's a skirmisher, not a slugger.

Instead of the hp increase, this is what the jackson should have gotten:


hp at 480 (3 shots)

native sight to 45 + 5 at vet 2.

rotation to 32 (same as panzer4) from 30.

get smoke by default.

size decrease to 22 from 24.

gun remain the same. (160 damage with ~6.6 reload)

this increase the jackson' survivability at far range through evasion, but at close range its 480 hp will still be a liability.

the new spring patch is just doubling down on the original mistake by turning the jackson into a brawler.

The jackson should have had its evasion increase to reinforce the fact it's a skirmisher, not a slugger.

Fun fact: Slugger is its historical nickname

Fun fact: Slugger is its historical nickname

some say the slugger nickname is given to the variant mounted on a sherman hull, which isn't the variant depicted in game.

and actually the name "jackson" appear in official US document relating to the m36.

this discussion regarding nickname is wholly irrelevant anyway.

USF have the tools to deal with medium armor and below via bazooka's, AT gun, Shermans, M10s, and to a extent Stuart. Issue with Jackson is it deals with all armor and makes the M10 redundant. What I'd suggest is not reducing the range but making the Jackson become similar to the FF but with high mobility, high damage, and low rate of fire. HVAP can still provide higher penetration and accuracy but no added damage bonus. Course the Jackson damage must be enough to require one less shot for heavier armor but doesn't three shot medium armor.

This way you keep the mobile aspect of it and make it more vulnerable to medium tank rushes while still providing a counter to heavy armor for USF. It also makes the M10 more relevant as a medium tank hunter.

The reload could be around eight seconds with the reload bonuses from veterancy being removed aside from veterancy 3. Reload can be fine tuned to see the best balance between countering heavy armor but still not high enough to destroy medium armor.

but making the Jackson become similar to the FF but with high mobility, high damage, and low rate of fire.

that would just be a better Firefly.

the firefly deal 200 damage with 8 reload. Any more "high damage slow reload" is going to be 240 damage 10 reload.

The current jackson is already a better firefly anyway. The tulip rocket is just ridiculously expensive.

das true. well in teamgames. Actually on topic though, Jackson is going to be fucked if that goes live. It won't though. I believe in Luciano.

Sad to hear

USF have the tools to deal with medium armor and below via bazooka's, AT gun, Shermans, M10s, and to a extent Stuart.

1- Seing how both Pz4 are smashing any infantry squad lately, I wouldn't count on Zook to deal with them.
2- Atgun and HmG.50 being in two different tiers make the Atgun irrelevant as a true counter for medium, you need the HMG early game to deal with the infantry since all factions have been aligned on the same early game powerness. Then what was design to be a choice between two tiers to create artificial lack for the faction along its tiering (suppression or ATgun) becomes a mandatory step putting you 60 fuel behind your opponent for your late game, so when your first sherman is there, you can face a dual stug or jpz4.
3- Sherman are hard countered by Jpz4 and Stugs while not being better than both Pz4, even a dual Puma can poke you hard from max range and not to mention obvious camo raketen and pak40. When an Axis player see a .50 he knows he isn't going to see a sherman supported by an Atgun before long.
4- Stuart is a joke, still doing 40 damages to vehicle and shitty vs infantry.
5- M10, I really need to test them this patch...

USF have the tools to deal with medium armor and below via bazooka's, AT gun, Shermans, M10s, and to a extent Stuart. Issue with Jackson is it deals with all armor and makes the M10 redundant. What I'd suggest is not reducing the range but making the Jackson become similar to the FF but with high mobility, high damage, and low rate of fire. HVAP can still provide higher penetration and accuracy but no added damage bonus. Course the Jackson damage must be enough to require one less shot for heavier armor but doesn't three shot medium armor.

This way you keep the mobile aspect of it and make it more vulnerable to medium tank rushes while still providing a counter to heavy armor for USF. It also makes the M10 more relevant as a medium tank hunter.

The reload could be around eight seconds with the reload bonuses from veterancy being removed aside from veterancy 3. Reload can be fine tuned to see the best balance between countering heavy armor but still not high enough to destroy medium armor.

Which armor piece specifically? Panther @ 960 HP? Tiger 1? Tiger 2?

If the Jackson became a Firefly-like would you prefer have the M10 Wolverine or the M8 Scott as the third unit in Major tier?

Jackson nerf is fine. Rifles stomp everything in early game so it should always be enough to snowball you into mid game medium armor spam.

If you gave them enough fuel for multiple Stugs, Panthers, or Tigers, you deserved to lose that game anyways.

Nothing to see here.

Snip

It's a 90mm gun, why the hell shouldn't it be a brawler? If you want to tinker with a tank and make it into a skirmisher the m10 is over here crying in the corner, bullied from a gang of Stugs.

I'd also just like to leave this here for "context" reasons Kappa

Yes, all is well and nice and a wonderful mechanic which allows diverse gameplay.

In context of USF decrew being abuseable^

hp at 480 (3 shots)

It has been like this for more than 3 years. More than 3 years the Jackson has been shit.

I'd also just like to leave this here for "context" reasons Kappa

In context of USF decrew being abuseable^

Good thing you can reinforce your troops while your Jacksons fight the enemy's armor.

It has been like this for more than 3 years. More than 3 years the Jackson has been shit.



Good thing you can reinforce your troops while your Jacksons fight the enemy's armor.

wat

I really wish those patch notes had been an April fools.

It's a 90mm gun, why the hell shouldn't it be a brawler? If you want to tinker with a tank and make it into a skirmisher the m10 is over here crying in the corner, bullied from a gang of Stugs.

glasscannon is a thing you know.

It has been like this for more than 3 years. More than 3 years the Jackson has been shit.

which is why I propose giving it a small size, better rotation, and smoke. There's more to survivability than merely armor and HP.

The puma is a good example of how to achieve good survivability without relying on tough armor or a huge hp pool. A puma with the jackson's gun would be a very good unit.

The Jackson's problem is it's got to be everything USF needs from a tank destroyer. The other factions have two or more specialist AT vehicles filling different roles.

The result is a tank which has no vehicular counter. If it did whichever tank countered it would counter USF's entire armour lineup.

In my opinion what USF needs is a cheaper non-doctrinal vehicular AT option that fills a similar role to the SU-76, AEC, Puma or StuG. That'd let the Jackson fall back into a more specialist Firefly/SU-85 role.

I find the idea of introducing a “Light AT” vehicle to US interesting, but ultimately destructively difficult to balance. US have lots of AT spread throughout all levels of tech, bazookas hard counter light vehicles while soft countering larger ones, while Jackson hard counters heavies but isn’t as efficient for its cost against light vehicles. If anything the problem with the Jackson TD results from uneven effectiveness of the tiers as a whole. Buffing the Stuart might make Captain play more rewarding and allow LT-Capt as a viable teching route instead of LT to Maj or Capt to Maj. Tier skipping allows fast tech, but takes away tools from the player. That’s a good risk/reward scenario, but if LT or Capt is always better than the other, and neither one is worth a back-tech after getting Maj, then you end up with less diversity. What I mean is that you end up with Maj tech being imbalanced because it is trying to fill the role of whatever you skipped to get there. Bazookas, .50 cal M2HBs, M1 ATGs and M36 Jacksons need to be balanced together as AT options scaling to different threats, but the tiers that they all come from must also be balanced to each other in other aspects as well.

Maybe move the mortar to Capt and Pack Howi to LT? Maybe buff Stuart against infantry? Maybe none of those things, but Jackson problems are a result of over reliance on it as “only” or “best” US AT option.

#makebazookaszookagain

It's a 90mm gun, why the hell shouldn't it be a brawler? If you want to tinker with a tank and make it into a skirmisher the m10 is over here crying in the corner, bullied from a gang of Stugs.

You take a lead in fuel, spam 3-4 M10s and run everything over. Stugs? Say hello to my little friends.

M10 is effective in my opinion. Especially in large numbers. Cheap, reliable (penetration is questionable) and fast. I'm fine with that.

It's a 90mm gun, why the hell shouldn't it be a brawler? If you want to tinker with a tank and make it into a skirmisher the m10 is over here crying in the corner, bullied from a gang of Stugs.

you do know that the m10 have had 560 hp and 50 range since USF release? this mean the m10 were semi-brawlers to begin with.

you're complaining about the m10 being too weak at the same time urging for the jackson to become more like the m10.