A general OKW discussion for new players

This is not my post i found it on reddit but it has some good questions that i need to have some asnewrs,and since there is no replay on reddit i thought it would be nice to post it here to.I hope that i dont brake any rules from the forum ty.


So I know I’m late to the party, but I finally defended my thesis and have time for RTS games again. I downloaded CoH2 last week and started playing my placement matches, and I have some questions. I’m also hoping that some of the questions will lead to a more general discussion about strategy and the metagame.

I’ve mostly been playing OKW.

DPS profiles for infantry. This is actually a few related questions:

a. Are STG volks better than stock volks at all ranges? How do the MP40s from feuersturm compare to stock and to STG volks at range and up close? I like the smoke from the MP40 package but I’m not sure if there’s a large DPS tradeoff (and finding stats on weapons/units in game is either difficult or impossible).

b. IR STGs on obers (from spec ops) vs the stock LMG upgrade. I read somewhere that the LMG is strictly better than the IR STG. Is that true?

c. More generally is there a source for raw DPS profiles (range vs. damage) for different infantry equipped with different weapons? I only have a very basic feel for this (e.g. obers want to fight at range, sturms and STG volks want to engage up close unless vs. other close range infantry like PPSH cons) but I don’t feel confident in general. Even if there are no hard numbers/DPS profiles available, a discussion could be helpful. For example, how do doctrinal infantry (jaegers, falls, pfuis) perform vs obers and vs STG volks at range? Up close? How do STG volks, doctrinal infantry, and obers perform vs other factions infantry? For example, how does an ober match up vs a vet0 rifle or vs a vet0 2BAR rifle or vs a vet3 2BAR rifle etc?

Still on the subject of infantry, what weapons are capable of being dropped and which of those are worth picking up? I’ve seen BARs drop - will picking them up with a volks cause them to drop an STG? BARs seem pretty good so that’s probably still a solid tradeoff but what about an ober? Will he drop his LMG if he picks up a BAR? Can squads that already have weapon equips grab two BARS/brens off the ground? Do any weapons with assault package style ability unlocks (like the MP40) drop?

How do the panzershreck upgrade for the sturms affect DPS vs infantry? Do they essentially do no damage to infantry, just do less, or what?

Do snipers only decloak while firing or can they be forcibly decloaked by moving next to them?

Do flamers ignore cover or do increased damage to units in cover? In other words, is it worth leaving cover if being attacked by a flame engineer?

It seems like the number of windows in a building affects the DPS of garrisoned units (correct me if I’m wrong). Is there a particular number of windows that’s safe to engage? For example, say a rifleman garrisons in a building. Say it has a one-window side. Can a stock volks win a fight vs the one-window rifleman in no cover? Yellow cover? Green cover? Does this change for buildings with 2 or 3 windows? If the rifleman has a BAR, will the BAR model only be able to fire out of his window (and so is it worth figuring out which window he’s in) or will the equipped model always fire out the window?

Any tips on using the OKW flaktrak? I’ve noticed that issuing a move/stop command will also reset the windup time on the gun so I’ve started doubletapping “H” for hold position to stop it in a safe place without interruption. Is there a better way?

Sometimes when you send a squad into cover, the position of the green dots on the move command don’t align with the actual position of the men against the cover. So there might be one model standing a bit off the wall, or in a nearby road, or stuck to a nearby fence. Do those models still receive the green cover that the dots seem to imply, or are they in yellow/no/red cover as their position seems to imply?

I’ve noticed that move commands sometimes have a wide range of model scatter. I might issue a move command, and the models will all bunch around the cursor. Then I’ll issue the same exact move command (or perhaps a few pixels off), only for the models to spread out over the entirety of a cap point. Is there a way to influence this for e.g. minimizing indirect fire damage while capping? Do the same points on the map always have the same amount of model scatter (so that e.g. if I find a spot on a cap point that clicking to results in a large amount of model scatter, can I always click that spot in future games to get the same scatter, or is it random)?

Sometimes issuing a squad into cover will result in them going over the top of the cover, even if the yellow “going over the top” animation doesn’t show. Is there a nice way to prevent this? I’ve tried holding down the move command and “painting” along the cover with my cursor, and this seems to stop them from going over the top. But it does take an extra second (a long time), and seems to result in weird clumping and a lot of models visually out of cover.

If I’m building a sandbag and an enemy comes along, I’ll issue a move command to cancel construction and get into cover. But there is a half second or so delay while the volks squad puts away its shovels (or whatever). Is there a faster way to halt construction when under fire?

Do rakketens in buildings get an bonuses e.g. range or accuracy?

Does attack ground (from a vehicle especially but also for ISGs/AT I guess) have higher accuracy, lower accuracy, or the same accuracy as attacking normally? For example if I’m trying to shoot a sherman with a P4, and the sherman is moving laterally to the P4, do I just right click the sherman to fire or is it better to attack ground a little ahead of its path?

Locations for panzer HQ. I really like to put it just behind a VP or a fuel so that it barely covers the point, but ideally is covered from AT/tanks by a building or wall. I’m getting away with this right now because placement match players are terrible like me, but what are optimal places to put it against better players? VODs/screenshots/replays/MS paint diagrams welcome.

Does the puma’s aimed shot ability one shot any infantry model? What about retreating models?

Much like my question about the DPS profiles of infantry, I’m curious about tanks.

a. It seems like P4s have the best anti-infantry cannon of the OKW mediums (excluding doctrinal choices like the hetzer and ostwind of course). Is it worth attacking ground into a clump of models for a higher chance of AoE damage, or will click attacking have the same chance?

b. Panther seems like an insanely expensive/popcap inefficient “tank destroyer.” I have not enjoyed using it. But I tried the spec ops command panther and it performed very well. Was that just luck, or does the command panther actually have different base stats (besides the auras of course, but I don’t think those affect the command panther itself).

c. More generally are there DPS profiles for the different tanks available somewhere? I suppose it’s harder for tanks since armor and pen ratings matter, so maybe a more open-ended discussion would be valuable. E.g. in a head-to-head fight, how does a P4 perform vs a T34/76? A T34/85? A sherman? What about a panther vs a jackson or a pershing or one of the soviet heavies? Etc.

d. How does the JP match up vs other tank destroyers? Can it head-to-head beat a heavy like a pershing or a comet?

Tank stop micro. I’ve been trying to practice “prioritize vehicle (or hold fire if vs multiple tanks) -> stop -> attack tank ->immediately issue move command” in tank vs. tank battles. Any tips on how to do this/better ways to get stopped accuracy in moving tank battles? I’ve been basically trying to mimic what I’ve seen other players do but I don’t know if I have the details right. Does the tank need to be fully stopped to get the accuracy bonus, or is it enough to issue the stop command and fire while still decelerating? Do tank destroyers also suffer an accuracy penalty when chasing/retreating linearly vs a linearly retreating/chasing tank?

Do the spec ops cluster grenades (and also the doctrinal infantry/ober grenades) deal reduced damage to models in cover? In buildings? Do they hurt units in buildings at all?

Exactly what does the final luftwaffe commander ability do? Does the strafing run just suppress, or can it wipe squads/kill tanks?

In DoW2 you could “spike” retreating squads with grenades. Do retreating squads in CoH2 get reduced damage from grenades? If a squad is in cover and a grenade is thrown at them and you only notice at the last second, so that if you retreat it will still get hit by the grenade, is it worth retreating? (That is: how does damage from grenades while in cover compare to damage from grenades while retreating?)

Does a tank’s accuracy/pen chance depend on distance as well? And if so, what are the numbers?

original post form :u/XiAquilae reddit
source:https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/8dyl6w/a_general_okw_discussion_for_new_players/

Hi there.

It's not that these are bad questions as such, but the structure is quite inconsistent and it seems to be lacking a red thread which makes it hard to get an overview of. Several questions even have 2-3 sub-questions which makes it a huge workload to answer and makes me uncertain how many would even read such an answer in its entirety if the effort was made.

Furtheremore many of these questions can easily be answered by doing some simple searching either here in the forum or simply googling them and others can be easily tested by testing yourself with the cheat commands mod.

At the end of the day the sheer quantity of questions will come at the cost of quality answers or simply lead to people not bothering to answer at all

But it looks like some of the nice people on reddit have actually made the effort, so hopefully their answers will suffice

So I know I’m late to the party, but I finally defended my thesis and have time for RTS games again. I downloaded CoH2 last week and started playing my placement matches, and I have some questions. I’m also hoping that some of the questions will lead to a more general discussion about strategy and the metagame.

Welcome back, OP(?)

I’ve mostly been playing OKW.

DPS profiles for infantry. This is actually a few related questions:

a. Are STG volks better than stock volks at all ranges? How do the MP40s from feuersturm compare to stock and to STG volks at range and up close? I like the smoke from the MP40 package but I’m not sure if there’s a large DPS tradeoff (and finding stats on weapons/units in game is either difficult or impossible).

Yes STG upgrades are superior upgrades, especially at close and mid range. At far range they are about equal in DPS.

MP40s are superior to STGs in short range situations only, they really excel at vet 3 when you have all you received acucracy buffs - allow you to deal more damage over time as you drop models.

b. IR STGs on obers (from spec ops) vs the stock LMG upgrade. I read somewhere that the LMG is strictly better than the IR STG. Is that true?

In a vacuum the LMG is better as it has higher DPS, especially at long range.

Realistically speaking, the IR STGs are better on the move, and can the majority of cover bonuses and are superior in clsoe range situations. This means their effective DPS in a fluid enviroment is superior, especially alte game where there is cover everywhere.

c. More generally is there a source for raw DPS profiles (range vs. damage) for different infantry equipped with different weapons? I only have a very basic feel for this (e.g. obers want to fight at range, sturms and STG volks want to engage up close unless vs. other close range infantry like PPSH cons) but I don’t feel confident in general. Even if there are no hard numbers/DPS profiles available, a discussion could be helpful.

There isn't a really good source as of right now (the favorite web community source is no longer up), but you can pull the values from the modding tools.

But numbers are only valuable to a point, since this is a situational game.

For example, how do doctrinal infantry (jaegers, falls, pfuis) perform vs obers and vs STG volks at range? Up close? How do STG volks, doctrinal infantry, and obers perform vs other factions infantry? For example, how does an ober match up vs a vet0 rifle or vs a vet0 2BAR rifle or vs a vet3 2BAR rifle etc?

My recomendation her eis to download the cheat mod off of steam, which will allow you to spaw/vet as much stuff as you want to test as many things as you want. Here's one of the two popular ones.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=692412438

Still on the subject of infantry, what weapons are capable of being dropped and which of those are worth picking up? I’ve seen BARs drop - will picking them up with a volks cause them to drop an STG? BARs seem pretty good so that’s probably still a solid tradeoff but what about an ober? Will he drop his LMG if he picks up a BAR? Can squads that already have weapon equips grab two BARS/brens off the ground? Do any weapons with assault package style ability unlocks (like the MP40) drop?

Basic rule of thumb is that if its an LMG,flamethrower or AT weapon - it will drop.

How do the panzershreck upgrade for the sturms affect DPS vs infantry? Do they essentially do no damage to infantry, just do less, or what?

DPS is based on the number weapons held by the squad, and their given profiles. The shreck upgrade changes the squad from 4STGS to 3STGs, improving its AT profile, but degrading its AI profile.

Do snipers only decloak while firing or can they be forcibly decloaked by moving next to them?

Both.

Do flamers ignore cover or do increased damage to units in cover? In other words, is it worth leaving cover if being attacked by a flame engineer?

Flamers get a bonus against units in cover, it is actually beneficial to be in negative(red) cover or nuetral cover when fighting flamers.

It seems like the number of windows in a building affects the DPS of garrisoned units (correct me if I’m wrong). Is there a particular number of windows that’s safe to engage?

its safe to engage any number of windows at range in green cover. Ideally, you want to attack a side with 1 or 0 windows.

For example, say a rifleman garrisons in a building. Say it has a one-window side. Can a stock volks win a fight vs the one-window rifleman in no cover? Yellow cover? Green cover?

Absolutely, green cover over 10 range is preferable. Cover is negated at 10 range, so always fight in cover beyond 10.

Does this change for buildings with 2 or 3 windows? If the rifleman has a BAR, will the BAR model only be able to fire out of his window (and so is it worth figuring out which window he’s in) or will the equipped model always fire out the window?

You are correct in this assessment. There is no way to control which window has which weapon though.

Any tips on using the OKW flaktrak? I’ve noticed that issuing a move/stop command will also reset the windup time on the gun so I’ve started doubletapping “H” for hold position to stop it in a safe place without interruption. Is there a better way?

This is good practice.

Here are some more tips. Treat it like an extremly mobile machine gun. Sight it with an infantry squad or cloaked rakten. If you buy a haltrack, always buy a ratken to back it up against light vehicle rushes. If it gets hit by an AT round, immediatly use the smoke ability, retreat and repair to full health. If your opponet is using smoke tomitigate the halftrack, use attack ground to counter his smoke.

Sometimes when you send a squad into cover, the position of the green dots on the move command don’t align with the actual position of the men against the cover. So there might be one model standing a bit off the wall, or in a nearby road, or stuck to a nearby fence. Do those models still receive the green cover that the dots seem to imply, or are they in yellow/no/red cover as their position seems to imply?

No they do nto receive the cover bonus. The icon you see on the squad is just the level of cover most of your squad models are in. It does not speak to the direction of the cover, nor tell you if al lmodels are in cover.

This is why flanking is so important, as cover is directional (unless its a bush) - the best way to negate green cover is to shoot models from a different direction.

I’ve noticed that move commands sometimes have a wide range of model scatter. I might issue a move command, and the models will all bunch around the cursor. Then I’ll issue the same exact move command (or perhaps a few pixels off), only for the models to spread out over the entirety of a cap point. Is there a way to influence this for e.g. minimizing indirect fire damage while capping? Do the same points on the map always have the same amount of model scatter (so that e.g. if I find a spot on a cap point that clicking to results in a large amount of model scatter, can I always click that spot in future games to get the same scatter, or is it random)?

Issuing movement commands near cover will clump squads. Issuing movement squads outside of cover will disperse them. This is your best method of controlling the spread of infantry.

Sometimes issuing a squad into cover will result in them going over the top of the cover, even if the yellow “going over the top” animation doesn’t show. Is there a nice way to prevent this? I’ve tried holding down the move command and “painting” along the cover with my cursor, and this seems to stop them from going over the top. But it does take an extra second (a long time), and seems to result in weird clumping and a lot of models visually out of cover.

If I’m building a sandbag and an enemy comes along, I’ll issue a move command to cancel construction and get into cover. But there is a half second or so delay while the volks squad puts away its shovels (or whatever). Is there a faster way to halt construction when under fire?

No but this is the best response to the situation you described.

Do rakketens in buildings get an bonuses e.g. range or accuracy?

No

Does attack ground (from a vehicle especially but also for ISGs/AT I guess) have higher accuracy, lower accuracy, or the same accuracy as attacking normally? For example if I’m trying to shoot a sherman with a P4, and the sherman is moving laterally to the P4, do I just right click the sherman to fire or is it better to attack ground a little ahead of its path?

No, all same scatter values apply - you're just directing the shots fired. However there is no "homing" or tracking feature to the shots.

Generally speaking, right cick is better when you have sight. Attack ground is better when your vehicle does not have los on your target. Attack ground can often mean hits through trees, smoke or othe obstacles.

Locations for panzer HQ. I really like to put it just behind a VP or a fuel so that it barely covers the point, but ideally is covered from AT/tanks by a building or wall. I’m getting away with this right now because placement match players are terrible like me, but what are optimal places to put it against better players? VODs/screenshots/replays/MS paint diagrams welcome.

Don't, put your t4 scherz at most covering your cutoff. Anything more agressive willopen it up to at gun / atrillery / handheld At fire.

This can happen very early in the game, so don't risk 100 fuel and the construction time if you don't need too.

Good players will punish you for agressive T4 placement.

Does the puma’s aimed shot ability one shot any infantry model? What about retreating models?

Yes, it will kill everythign in a small radius where it hits. On retreating models it has a chance to miss, but is accuracte to gamble with.

Much like my question about the DPS profiles of infantry, I’m curious about tanks.

a. It seems like P4s have the best anti-infantry cannon of the OKW mediums (excluding doctrinal choices like the hetzer and ostwind of course). Is it worth attacking ground into a clump of models for a higher chance of AoE damage, or will click attacking have the same chance?

I woudln't bother with attack ground, unless you specifically have a situation where there is a clump and the turrent isn't targeting the optimal location. The auto attack should be just as good at killing those clumps.

b. Panther seems like an insanely expensive/popcap inefficient “tank destroyer.” I have not enjoyed using it. But I tried the spec ops command panther and it performed very well. Was that just luck, or does the command panther actually have different base stats (besides the auras of course, but I don’t think those affect the command panther itself).

Wait till the next patch before using panthers again. If you must build a pnather, use it as a flanking unit.

c. More generally are there DPS profiles for the different tanks available somewhere? I suppose it’s harder for tanks since armor and pen ratings matter, so maybe a more open-ended discussion would be valuable. E.g. in a head-to-head fight, how does a P4 perform vs a T34/76? A T34/85? A sherman? What about a panther vs a jackson or a pershing or one of the soviet heavies? Etc.

Same answer as before, you can find it via the mod tools - but the community resource has recently gone offline.

d. How does the JP match up vs other tank destroyers? Can it head-to-head beat a heavy like a pershing or a comet?

It will hard coutner them, so long as you take advtange of the 60 range and properly screen it with infantry to prevent flanking dives and sight out to 60 range. Its great for killign tanks that were ambushed by your ratekens and are retreating as well.

It also benefits heavily from veterancy, so keep it alive to improve its stopping power.

The SU85 match up is the only one i'm usually scared about - its all about who hits who first. Both are TDs with 60 range.

Tank stop micro. I’ve been trying to practice “prioritize vehicle (or hold fire if vs multiple tanks) -> stop -> attack tank ->immediately issue move command” in tank vs. tank battles. Any tips on how to do this/better ways to get stopped accuracy in moving tank battles? I’ve been basically trying to mimic what I’ve seen other players do but I don’t know if I have the details right. Does the tank need to be fully stopped to get the accuracy bonus, or is it enough to issue the stop command and fire while still decelerating? Do tank destroyers also suffer an accuracy penalty when chasing/retreating linearly vs a linearly retreating/chasing tank?

The tank does not need to be fully stopped to get the bonus. You just need to hit the stop key before the next shot it fired.

All tanks, even TDs receive an accuracy moving penalty. So pressing the stop key jsut before firing negates this particular problem.

Do the spec ops cluster grenades (and also the doctrinal infantry/ober grenades) deal reduced damage to models in cover? In buildings? Do they hurt units in buildings at all?

All explosives deal reduced damage to things in green if fired over the green cover in question. Ie a grenade thrown over the front of the wall at a squad will deal half the damage as a grenade thrown from the side or behind. A mortar shell that goes over a wall to hit a squad will deal half the damage compared to one that lands in front of the wall

Exactly what does the final luftwaffe commander ability do? Does the strafing run just suppress, or can it wipe squads/kill tanks?

It provides air support in the form of one AT plane and one AI plane. During the ability you can reinforce your falls anywhere on the map.

In DoW2 you could “spike” retreating squads with grenades. Do retreating squads in CoH2 get reduced damage from grenades? If a squad is in cover and a grenade is thrown at them and you only notice at the last second, so that if you retreat it will still get hit by the grenade, is it worth retreating? (That is: how does damage from grenades while in cover compare to damage from grenades while retreating?)

Full damage is applied by grenades to retreating squads. The RA modifier is for projectile fire only. If your squad is in green and the grenade was thrown over the cover they are in, it is better to take the grenade and then retreat. If the grenade came froma flank, its better to retreat or dodge.

Does a tank’s accuracy/pen chance depend on distance as well? And if so, what are the numbers?

Yes, dependant onthe tank. You will have to use the mod tools to get current numbers. Generally speaking, the farther you are the lower your accuracy and penetration. This is why its better to get up close and flank with t34s - they have excellent close range penetration.