I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:47 PMzarok47

You wanna know why grenadiers have higher dps then their con brethern?

4 for 6 man

2 more rifle's AND 2 more bodies to drop. Math behind it translates into roughly 2.5 more dps required to be Equal.

As for dps on long range, it's a joke since grens are moving, mostly at 3 men or less and firing vs a cloaking target.

The only way to kill a sniper is with another sniper, and the 1 man change will not change that.

And if you want to go back to sov sniper utterly destroying ostheer, please make it fire as fast as ost sniper.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:56 PMElSlayer

Ok, I will repeat my point for one more person, but no more, as it getting annoying...

Current patch notes:
Cons high HP pool, low dps = Grens low HP pool, high dps
Sniper Team high HP pool, low dps = Wehrmacht Sniper low HP pool, high dps


New patch notes:
Brand New Lonely Soviet Sniper low HP pool, buffed but still low(er) DPS =/= Wehrmacht Sniper low HP pool, still high(er) dps

Where is logic behind this change?
Not even logic but... just old plain and simple consistency?

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:50 PMNosliw

Fixed that for you.

There is a reason why good soviet players like Rutra never lose their snipers to anything other than Panzer Werfers or Stuka - it's just so easy to keep them alive against both charging and even flanking grenadiers.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:59 PM#12345678

I am talking about the firepower of Grenadier, not discussing how to avoid Grenadier or skills in using Soviet sniper.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:00 PMNosliw

Please refer to above posts where Zarok and I clearly explain the difference between single model DPS versus total squad DPS.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:59 PMNosliw

Ah man, you completely missed Zarok's point:

Cons: Low DPS per model x 6 men = Same DPS as grenadier (who has higher DPS per model)

Therefore, even so conscript models have lower DPS than Grenadier models, since you're not likely to be chasing down snipers with 1 man conscript squads, the DPS of a 6 man conscript chasing an axis sniper is basically equal to the DPS of a 4 man grenadier squad chasing a soviet sniper.

Do you understand now?

Oh, and don't forget that Soviets get Oorah! ability to close the gap even easier.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:06 PMNosliw

Even better, imagine this common scenario:

Grenadier runs toward a lonely Soviet sniper. The sniper gets off 1 shot before the Grenadier comes into range. The grenadier (who has same total squad DPS) has now lost 1 man, and thus 25% of the squads firepower. The soviet sniper can now retreat while being attacked by a squad at 75% power.

Conscript runs toward a lonely Axis sniper. The sniper gets off 1 shot before the Conscript comes into range. The conscript (who has the same total squad DPS) has now lost 1 man, and thus 16.7% of the squads firepower. The axis sniper can now retreat while being attacked by a squad at 83.3% power.

Get the picture?

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:06 PMElSlayer

I get your point.

I'm not sure if Total DPS of Cons = Total DPS of Grens. Otherwise Cons would always win against Grens at any range just because Cons have more EHP.

Can you (or anybody?) provide link to some reliable source of unit stats so I could double-check it?

And Oorah is quite useless for chasing as it removes shooting on the move.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:17 PM#12345678

I remembered that DPS of cons close to Grens in close range, but Grens are far better in long range. That's from one of Mr. Smith's thread in this forum about the last Winter update.

Also, a LMG42 equiped Grenadier has at least 50% firepower from the MG, so lose one/two models are not losing too much firepower.

Finally, don't try to argue with those without a playercard. You don't even know if he plays the game or just a Lv.1 rookie.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:54 PMNosliw

God forbid we bring back the old sniper system, where the player who microes his sniper better wins the sniper war. You're right, I much prefer the unbalanced CoH2 sniper system, where the Soviet sniper is so good that axis players don't even bother making a counter sniper

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:40 PMKatitof

That old system is responsible for one of the most cancerous meta in CoH history...

The one thing I thought to myself when I've seen CoH2 soviet recon team for the first time was "GOD YES, finally no more sniper wars bullshit" and then brits came and now this.

And having your sniper on hold for 30 minutes while microing from cover to cover, waiting until your opponent shoots first is -NOT- an interesting gameplay dynamic or fun to watch micro.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:40 PMKatitof

That old system is responsible for one of the most cancerous meta in CoH history...

The one thing I thought to myself when I've seen CoH2 soviet recon team for the first time was "GOD YES, finally no more sniper wars bullshit" and then brits came and now this.

And having your sniper on hold for 30 minutes while microing from cover to cover, waiting until your opponent shoots first is -NOT- an interesting gameplay dynamic or fun to watch micro.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:50 PMLago

I've actually yet to see anyone say they want the Soviet sniper to be vulnerable to countersnipes. There just seems to be this broad assumption that making the squad one man is somehow necessary to reduce its survivability.

It's not. Received accuracy and health are what determines its survivability. The only reason I can see to make it one man is to make it countersnipeable.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:51 PMNosliw

God forbid Soviets actually have a unit on equal playing field with other factions.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:54 PMblvckdream

Erm what? Are you trying to imply all Soviet units are OP? Even SHOCKS? lol

And why are you even discussing balance when you arent playing the game anymore. Makes no sense.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:51 PMNosliw

God forbid Soviets actually have a unit on equal playing field with other factions.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 17:01 PMblvckdream

Ok. so 6 men are automatically better than 4 men squads no matter their actual stats. thats ur point.

Makes a lot of sense. 10/10