Spring Update - Balance thread

You are wrong, just look at reason why katysha get nerf, coz players can react.
Now go in cheat mode and test, what arty shoot faster from all this kinds.
Katysha are not most lethai arty from all 3 units taht are in tiers. Coz after first salvey you can retreut if you dont hear it. Now image when you dont hear PW or stuka barrage sound, you just must pray that you squads dont get wipe.

Huh? I never said that Kat is more lethal, I'm just suggesting that they seem to be designed to do different things (also, not saying that that is good or bad).

Stuka and PW clearly have a better alpha strike that is certainly more lethal to single team weapons; however, IF you survived that alpha strike (and yes, that happens), there is no reason to move your shit anymore (or any adjacent units), because that was the end of the barrage.

Seems like PW's and Stuka's intended role is to kill stuff more or less surgically and reliably. They have to have a serious alpha strike, because, well, there isn't a "beta strike". All allied rocket artillery seems to be more for area denial: As opponent, you have a good chance to survive the first rockets, but you really should move all your stuff in the vicinity away to increase chances of it not dying. And according to the notes they feel that Katy - despite probably being intended mostly for area denial - is too good in the role of the PW/Stuka.

Again, I'm not saying that Katy is too good now or too bad, or that the intended role is useful or not or that the whole concept has merits or not. Only pointing out that the argument "but PW and Stuka have a huge alpha strike" falls short.

Now, feel free to discuss if the Katy's alpha strike is indeed too strong or not, or if PW/Stuka barrages should work more like Katy/LM/Calli or vice versa, or whatever...

I agree with Katitof, though, in that it would be helpful to get like "Designer's notes" on what roles the units are supposed to fill, because at that point one can discuss to what extend the units actually fulfill the intended role and if that role is useful in the first place.

I'm surprised not more people are talking about the mortar changes regarding yellow cover. This is "YUGE". You know, like the 82HP change to snipers, now you won't randomly wipe when crossing craters through mid-late game (at least from mortars).




Is there any online site/spreadsheet available to check full stats atm? I wouldn't mind making a post so you can copy paste the new popcap changes for example, cause right now it's quite hard knowing from which value it has been changed.

1- Pack Howitzer range change doesn't seem right as AA has always been 80. If the barrage range has been reduced to 80, then good lord that's a nerf and probably putting the unit into the dumpsters and below old Suxton crap tier.

2- For soviet sniper change, i'll say go to the specific thread for a longer response but, has other changes been considered instead of making it a 1 man squad? Is it such an important thing to be able to counter snipe? With the heavy buff to counters and the rework to snipers, i fear it's either gonna be unusable or even worst, even stronger than now.

3- Any consideration on making flares reveal cloaked units ?

4- Is the PPSH a change to give some space for Shocktroops to work?

5- Su76: why not update vet requirements to Puma levels.
Why not give the barrage a minor cost such as 10-15muni so it's not FREE.

6- I'm not sure if 222 has been overbuffed or if it has been overbuffed ? Hull mg sniper change good. Cost decrease + armor increased... One or the other.

7- Slightly concerned as how UKF is gonna stand on 1v1 now.

Coz all good players know, if in battlefield are mortars dont go in yellow cover coz you can get wipe. Its low of coh2 war. Green cover or no cover that rules what players use.
Same situation with pathing, if you know that pathing are borken, dont move in situation where its will be showed, thats why sometimes people lose tanks, specially heavy or light.
Its will be good if somebody make pathing map troubles in coh2.

There are some things that have not been applied or maybe they are a typographical failure:

currently PIV 14 and ST 8

currently is 9

Vickers???/PIATs

This is because before this version of the patch notes, those values were changed at some point and then changed back, for example pack howi had auto attack range of 90 at some point and then it was changed back.

M3 Halftrack drops Vickers K

General Reactions by Faction

OST

200 MP for new buffed 222 is - it's going to be the 444 - 666 patch all over again. Particularly against Brits - which will shoehorn their builds into AEC or AT Sections I fear.

Panther armor to 260 is "interesting" - I understand that mediums will need to be able to Pen it easier with it's extra health and nerfed TD Popcap but will be one of those changes that will need to be tested extensively and likely tweaked.

Rest were all nerfs to units generally considered to be over-performing. I'm also kind of curious how G43 escaped changes. And *Pet Cause* CAN WE PLEASE CHANGE TIGER ACE.

UKF

I fear for Brits in 1v1. Mostly nerfs to a faction who have had all their OP stuff methodically nerfed in all of the recent patches. Ouch. I worry Infantry Sections (and upgrades) were overnerfed - not sure how they will compete with Elite Infantry in the midgame. Mortar Pit buff is only silver lining as Brits sorely need the help with indirect fire. I'm not sure if balance team thought through the barrage time reduction and how that will stack with garrison bonus. **Pet Cause** We can haz viable Artillery Regiment plz?

USF

Pretty much all no-brainer changes. Pak Howie and Mortar changes are very welcome as 60 range mortar was so absolutely aggravating to use on certain maps where 80 range mortars could camp behind shot blockers but you had to go out in open to counter barrage. I don't think Greyhound was overperforming vs. vehicles but seeing as how it's supposed to be primarily AI I can't argue against that too much. Edit- Clusterbombs were nerfed? I personally think it's already a pretty bad ability.

SOV

Mostly nerfs - can't argue given how much of a boon they got from December Patch. +1 to PPSH nerf being kind of iffy - it does make the upgrade seem not very attractive now.

OKW

Good stuff all around - hoping this will equal out the viability of BG and Mech. ISG Buff is welcome but I'll probably hate it when playing against Truck City campers.

Mortars and Snipers

Honestly I think these changes are game changers (pun intended) and look pretty great on paper. Garrisons should be a lot less dominating on certain maps and you'll properly be rewarded for hard countering them with snipers and mortars. Likewise you'll be rewarded for barrage micro with Vet 3 Mortars, awesome! .9 Yellow cover means not more cheesy full health wipes due to bunching behind "cover" like you are supposed to (honestly I think this should be applied to grenades too). Just to be clear - The Vet 2 Accuracy bonus on mortars is for auto attack scatter right? Patch notes made it sound like it was barrage accuracy but honestly it's hard to tell with tool tips. Not sure how I feel about removing auto attack scatter (just removing/reducing the many mortar bulletins to prevent stacking abuse might be sufficient)

It mean Special ops Regiment If have munition point
Should Tommy use double Vickers K because Better Long range Dps than
Bren ?
PS I hate Vickers K Gun sound

Huh? I never said that Kat is more lethal, I'm just suggesting that they seem to be designed to do different things (also, not saying that that is good or bad).

Stuka and PW clearly have a better alpha strike that is certainly more lethal to single team weapons; however, IF you survived that alpha strike (and yes, that happens), there is no reason to move your shit anymore (or any adjacent units), because that was the end of the barrage.

Seems like PW's and Stuka's intended role is to kill stuff more or less surgically and reliably. They have to have a serious alpha strike, because, well, there isn't a "beta strike". All allied rocket artillery seems to be more for area denial: As opponent, you have a good chance to survive the first rockets, but you really should move all your stuff in the vicinity away to increase chances of it not dying. And according to the notes they feel that Katy - despite probably being intended mostly for area denial - is too good in the role of the PW/Stuka.

Again, I'm not saying that Katy is too good now or too bad, or that the intended role is useful or not or that the whole concept has merits or not. Only pointing out that the argument "but PW and Stuka have a huge alpha strike" falls short.

Now, feel free to discuss if the Katy's alpha strike is indeed too strong or not, or if PW/Stuka barrages should work more like Katy/LM/Calli or vice versa, or whatever...

I agree with Katitof, though, in that it would be helpful to get like "Designer's notes" on what roles the units are supposed to fill, because at that point one can discuss to what extend the units actually fulfill the intended role and if that role is useful in the first place.

(they feel that Katy - despite probably being intended mostly for area denial - is too good in the role of the PW/Stuka.)

How thay feel it, did thay have numbers of killing or survive models ? Its all are personal feeling of the game, maybe from 4v4, maybe from 1v1. What if another have different opinion ? To make changes like this, i need more arguments than feelings in game that based on numbers.If here was statistic (like in cards game), that show what time you need to react, its will be somthing like argument.
Hope lords descend to us to write about "Designer's notes".

It mean Special ops Regiment If have munition point
Should Tommy use double Vickers K because Better Long range Dps than
Bren ?
PS I hate Vickers K Gun sound

Vickers K is supossed to have the same changes as the bren gun, maybe they forgot to write them on the list.

For those who mention no panzer werfer changes, they were planned but they are out of the scope for now.

It mean Special ops Regiment If have munition point
Should Tommy use double Vickers K because Better Long range Dps than
Bren ?
PS I hate Vickers K Gun sound

Probably. The Bren is a 45 munition weapon now so a double Vickers K squad should be significantly more powerful if significantly more expensive.

Come to think of it, that might actually be enough to save the Resupply HT from the trash heap.

can someone explain to me why sexton is not touched
seriously it makes me wonder

can someone explain to me why sexton is not touched
seriously it makes me wonder

Because the patch has certain focus, it is aimed to fix certain things from the current meta and we need to attach to the times, if this patch is meant to be released in spring we cant really change too much things, because that would take more time to test.

Here you have a dps calculator made by cruzz, it has some stats https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing

I think that link may be wrong... when I click it, all I get is this: https://i.imgur.com/VM7SEw1.png

Tried in multiple browsers too.

ISG vet requirements need to be lowered drastically if you're going to put the 20% less scatter bonus at vet 5 when other mortars get it at vet 3.

When was the last time you saw a vet 5 ISG?

I think that link may be wrong... when I click it, all I get is this: https://i.imgur.com/VM7SEw1.png

Tried in multiple browsers too.

You have to download it and then open it with the browser

Because the patch has certain focus, it is aimed to fix certain things from the current meta and we need to attach to the times, if this patch is meant to be released in spring we cant really change too much things, because that would take more time to test.

Strange things, ppsh are meta problem, but gev43 nope ? Almost every game ostheer play with same and its not problem ? And 2 bars/brens are not problems ? Or thay are in scope ?
Hope its dont will be tests like with maxims

Strange things, ppsh are meta problem, but gev43 nope ? Almost every game ostheer play with same and its not problem ? And 2 bars/brens are not problems ? Or thay are in scope ?
Hope its dont will be tests like with maxims

G43s are out of scope aparently too, g43s changes were mentioned too.

OKW having also nades delayed is a mistake. Its the only way to deal with early mgs. Without it okw will be stomped early game, since you can just garrison mgs on maps that has houses on fuel points or cutoffs

G43s are out of scope aparently too, g43s changes were mentioned too.

What ways was to change ppsh ? Buff it and make 2 ? Up price ? Somthing another ? Did ppsh DPS in close are same like bars or STG ? What role of cons with ppsh are now ?

What ways was to change ppsh ? Buff it and make 2 ? Up price ? Somthing another ? Did ppsh DPS in close are same like bars or STG ? What role of cons with ppsh are now ?

PPsh changes are in the patch notes:

Conscript PPSh
Conscripts are now only upgraded with 2 PPsh’s per squad to reduce their close range lethality, improve counter play and increase reaction time for the opposing player.
• Number of PPSh slot items awarded from 3 to 2

I have no idea what is the dps of the ppsh compared to the stg or bar. The role still is pretty much the same, a close quarter combat unit.

You have to download it and then open it with the browser

Ah, thank you!

can the IS-2 be buffed to 45 range instead of 40 ?