The extra grenade is always good but I really can't made this packet work, for Volk to deal damg with MP40s they had to get really close just like shock troops and ofcourse Allies infantry will hold their groud quite ok, and since upgrading them with this packet seem to neft their stats or something, they become really fragile and can't close the gap without resulting in big number losses, so how do you use them?
P.S Comparing with the Wehrmacht's Mechanized Assault Doctrine is Assault Grenadiers what units do you guys think work?
MP40s Can OKW made it work or just Wehrmacht?
14 Apr 2018, 07:36 AM
#1
Posts: 90
14 Apr 2018, 08:07 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Upgraded volks have pretty similar stats to ass grens at vet0.
Difference comes from scaling, volks do not scale for cqc and lack durability there.
I'd use the upgrade to protect MGs or to flank, its not "I will bumrush you now" kind of upgrade.
Difference comes from scaling, volks do not scale for cqc and lack durability there.
I'd use the upgrade to protect MGs or to flank, its not "I will bumrush you now" kind of upgrade.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Apr 2018, 09:53 AM
#3
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
It doesn't really make sense to upgrade them with mp40s considering the STG upgrade is a steroid at all ranges while the mp40s are only good a very close range.
As you said to do damage with the mp40s it has to be point blank similar to shock troops. The issue with that is volks do not get the armor or RA bonuses typical cqc units get meaning they get shredded when moving toward allied infantry.
Ass Grens are better cqc because they are built for it, but they do not get a snare and that hurts them a lot to early LV or scout cars. mp40 volks dont really get a place when the STG upgrade is so much better then it anyways.
As you said to do damage with the mp40s it has to be point blank similar to shock troops. The issue with that is volks do not get the armor or RA bonuses typical cqc units get meaning they get shredded when moving toward allied infantry.
Ass Grens are better cqc because they are built for it, but they do not get a snare and that hurts them a lot to early LV or scout cars. mp40 volks dont really get a place when the STG upgrade is so much better then it anyways.
bg /l
14 Apr 2018, 10:14 AM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
From patch notes:
Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.
Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
Takes up both weapon slots
Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
Removes access to Flame Grenade
Requires a truck to be set up
Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
Costs 45 munitions
VG get a TS reduction with the package making them tougher.
My advises for using them would be:
Do not attack in open ground
Either wait in ambush or use the smoke grenade
Do not buy MP40 for many squads 1-2 should be enough
Pair an MP40 VG so that the MP40 uses the smoke grenade to close in and the other VG uses his grenade.
The optimum range for them is range 10, their DPS does not increase by moving closer.
Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.
Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
Takes up both weapon slots
Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
Removes access to Flame Grenade
Requires a truck to be set up
Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
Costs 45 munitions
VG get a TS reduction with the package making them tougher.
My advises for using them would be:
Do not attack in open ground
Either wait in ambush or use the smoke grenade
Do not buy MP40 for many squads 1-2 should be enough
Pair an MP40 VG so that the MP40 uses the smoke grenade to close in and the other VG uses his grenade.
The optimum range for them is range 10, their DPS does not increase by moving closer.
14 Apr 2018, 18:07 PM
#5
Posts: 90
From patch notes:
Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.
Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
Takes up both weapon slots
Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
Removes access to Flame Grenade
Requires a truck to be set up
Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
Costs 45 munitions
VG get a TS reduction with the package making them tougher.
My advises for using them would be:
Do not attack in open ground
Either wait in ambush or use the smoke grenade
Do not buy MP40 for many squads 1-2 should be enough
Pair an MP40 VG so that the MP40 uses the smoke grenade to close in and the other VG uses his grenade.
The optimum range for them is range 10, their DPS does not increase by moving closer.
So that mean they are tougher with the upgrade? Could had sworn they reduced their stats.
Just want to ask what is the optimum range for shocktroop and ranger? I see that the closer they are to you the faster you die.
14 Apr 2018, 18:30 PM
#6
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
So that mean they are tougher with the upgrade? Could had sworn they reduced their stats.
Just want to ask what is the optimum range for shocktroop and ranger? I see that the closer they are to you the faster you die.
Just gonna wing this one. Shock troops optimum is 0 I believe since the PPSH profile is strongest at 0. Thompson rangers have a more forgiving DPS curve and are roughly equal DPS wise at ranges 0 and 10. Like the StG they still perform very decent at mid range. If you mean the m1 carbines they're stronger mid to close like m1 garands, but have worse long range accuracy but stronger RoF at close.
14 Apr 2018, 23:35 PM
#7
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
So that mean they are tougher with the upgrade? Could had sworn they reduced their stats.
Just want to ask what is the optimum range for shocktroop and ranger? I see that the closer they are to you the faster you die.
Both also max out at 10 range. And yes, volks will effectively take 7% less damage against small arms.
15 Apr 2018, 07:29 AM
#8
Posts: 90
Both also max out at 10 range. And yes, volks will effectively take 7% less damage against small arms.
Maybe volks shouldn't be used in that way then, maybe I never run them that close before but they are fragile when using MP40s I feel like, must be due to the short-range in order to be effective vs Allies already strong infantry.
15 Apr 2018, 09:05 AM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Shock troops achieve max DPS at range 10 and lose most of their DPS at range 15.
So one should try to have all models bellow range 10.
Thompson's achieve max DPS at range 10 but lose most of their DPS at range 25. So Thompson are much more forgiving when it comes to finding the correct range.
This problem start from the fact that bolt action rifles and semi automatic rifles have close range 0 and get better the closer one get to 0 meaning that smgs troops get the best DPS ratio at range 10 and gain little by closing in.
Imo close ranges should be adjusted to something like smgs 0, assault rifles 5, carbine(semi auto) 8 bolt action 10. (or use reverse curve for long range weapon similar to lmgs)\
I have a much older thread about it, explaining some of the issues:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/52782/suggested-improvements-to-small-arms-weapons
So one should try to have all models bellow range 10.
Thompson's achieve max DPS at range 10 but lose most of their DPS at range 25. So Thompson are much more forgiving when it comes to finding the correct range.
This problem start from the fact that bolt action rifles and semi automatic rifles have close range 0 and get better the closer one get to 0 meaning that smgs troops get the best DPS ratio at range 10 and gain little by closing in.
Imo close ranges should be adjusted to something like smgs 0, assault rifles 5, carbine(semi auto) 8 bolt action 10. (or use reverse curve for long range weapon similar to lmgs)\
I have a much older thread about it, explaining some of the issues:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/52782/suggested-improvements-to-small-arms-weapons
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