2v2 Ostheer Mid-Late Game Help

So me and my friend recently started playing 2v2s together, and it's a lot of fun but, the past few games have been really frustrating for us. Even if we do pretty good early game and go toe to toe with the soviets or better it doesn't seem to matter because we end up losing late game to SU-85s which tear apart our p4s and even our panthers can't seem to really deal with given that the Panthers hit the field way later than the SU's and cost more.

Additionally it's hard to approach the tanks with shreked p-grens due to shreked p-grens being too vunerable to charge through 2 players worth of infantry. So far our most successful strat has been launching smoke in with mortars to cover and then charge through with grens and pgrens to faust/shrek the su-85 before it can react. But this depends on the soviets not reversing the fuck out of dodge when they see the smoke go down.

I'm an alright 1v1 player (top 600 I don't think that's very good, but at least alright) but this just has me vexed. Please don't make this a balance thread about the game, but are there any tips or strategies you could give us to help us beat the soviets late game?

Thanks!

Hey mate,

My friend and I were in the exact same boat as you not long ago, we found this incredibly frustrating and just moaned for a balance patch but with time we got better and learnt ways around the SU85 but understand there is no silver bullet, no strategy and no hard counter.

You need to work with combined arms to deal with the SU85, now a good player makes this hard but firstly your weapons against it are Pak's, Schreks, Pfaust's, and Tanks. Combining what you have on the field to deal with this tank at the time is key if you don't have any AT to deal with it you have failed before you have begun.

Aim not to throw tanks at it until it has engine damage from Pfaust's or schreks if you can have a Pak harrasing it but only if you can without it getting inf rushed but once it has engine damage its time for a Tokyo Drift or a tap dance as we like to call it I will assume you understand what that means but ask for clarification if required.

Lately we have had a lot of success at beating the Soviets early game before they can even get a SU85 out, by harrassing fuel as a top priority and searching there nodes for fuel caches.

Also sticking to a build order and teching on time is important so that you either beat them or are on time with them too Tanks hitting the field, but everything is situational and the quality of your opponent will always dictate the game and your performance under stress so just keep playing and keep learning.

I know you said no balance discussion but SU85 should be balanced very shortly as its been earmarked as one of the devs top priorities and it has been a few weeks since last patch.

In the interim, (and probably after the patch also) your best bet is to use PGs with shrecks and paks. Sovs can build katyushas from the same building which smashes both of these so I'd suggest one of you choose a commander with either recon/stuka fuel bomb to deal with those, or a commander with artillery. Similar to the sov combo of one guy going T1-T4 and the other T2-T3, I find one german going T2 heavy straight to T4, the other T1-T3 is also good.

What heals said is very true as well, never EVER send a P4 into SU85s until you've fausted it. I imagine this will hold true after the patch as well if SU85 isn't overnerfed, it is a dedicated tank destroyer.

To deal with SU-85s:

- Flanking Pgrens
- Spam PIVs
- Build the howizers.
- Elephant.

IMO in a 2v2 some sort of heavy doctrine AT is needed, ideally the elephant as the pak-43 is a bit of an arty magnet which they will often have. Especially as many of the 2v2 maps are a little chokey. Rhzev, minsk, priypat come to mind where it's had to exploit the non turreted su.

The key is to not let them reach that critical mass, once they start getting upwards of 3 SU-85's it becomes really really difficult and usually a large scale "do-or-die" attack is needed or the game will just slip away from you.

Rhzev, minsk, priypat come to mind where it's had to exploit the non turreted su.

On the flip site that is also the place where those doctrinal artillery pieces shine.

Hey mate,

My friend and I were in the exact same boat as you not long ago, we found this incredibly frustrating and just moaned for a balance patch but with time we got better and learnt ways around the SU85 but understand there is no silver bullet, no strategy and no hard counter.

You need to work with combined arms to deal with the SU85, now a good player makes this hard but firstly your weapons against it are Pak's, Schreks, Pfaust's, and Tanks. Combining what you have on the field to deal with this tank at the time is key if you don't have any AT to deal with it you have failed before you have begun.

Aim not to throw tanks at it until it has engine damage from Pfaust's or schreks if you can have a Pak harrasing it but only if you can without it getting inf rushed but once it has engine damage its time for a Tokyo Drift or a tap dance as we like to call it I will assume you understand what that means but ask for clarification if required.

Lately we have had a lot of success at beating the Soviets early game before they can even get a SU85 out, by harrassing fuel as a top priority and searching there nodes for fuel caches.

Also sticking to a build order and teching on time is important so that you either beat them or are on time with them too Tanks hitting the field, but everything is situational and the quality of your opponent will always dictate the game and your performance under stress so just keep playing and keep learning.

Perfect man thanks this was just the response is was looking for. Next time me and him play we're gonna try to gren aggro with some mg support and basically end the game before they can get 2 or hopefully even 1 su-85. I think we were kind of stuck in vcoh thinking where Germans do better camping out their side of the map and counter pushing.

Also does make me really happy to here they're going to balance the tank, it's probably my least favorite unit since the staghound lol

Also depending on the map I might get a pak43. I haven't tried it at all yet since I dismissed it as a gimmick weapon but I think that might be really good against the su on the one large lake stage (rzhevs?) and maybe Minsk too.

Pak43 is great vs SU85 but very hard to keep alive. Once it has fired its position is revealed and it will be taken out very quickly. If you do build one, make sure to manually target it because it has a bad habit of blowing its cover taking potshots at infantry.

Perfect man thanks this was just the response is was looking for. Next time me and him play we're gonna try to gren aggro with some mg support and basically end the game before they can get 2 or hopefully even 1 su-85. I think we were kind of stuck in vcoh thinking where Germans do better camping out their side of the map and counter pushing.

Also does make me really happy to here they're going to balance the tank, it's probably my least favorite unit since the staghound lol

No worries mate I am glad I could be an aid, I was also glad to know someone felt like me and my team mate did.

Doctrines with either tactical movement (helps for gren and PGren advance), elephant or tactical smoke are needed.

PIV spam fails most of the time if you don't faust the su85.

Doctrines with either tactical movement (helps for gren and PGren advance), elephant or tactical smoke are needed.

PIV spam fails most of the time if you don't faust the su85.

PIV spam is really more like "I build two PzIV in base and don't move out and spam him with Panzergrens instead so he doesn't build more than one SU-85 and then I buttrape it."