Tweaks/Buffs for the Tiger and IS-2

I did this topic a while back in the other forum, but it was blotted out with the spam of topics crying about balance. Regardless, I don't think any of it has been addressed in any of the newer changes.

So here's my input of the Tiger and IS-2

Tiger - A very cost inefficent peice of garbage.
IS-2 - A beast killer HEAVY tank that has trouble facing off against MEDIUM tanks

First of all, I'm just going to say heavy tanks in this game are in need of severe buffs. So let's start off with the Tiger first and compare it with a panther in terms of cost efficency.



The pros:
-Decent reload speed of the turret
-decent anti infantry (reason below)
-Mediocre durability over the panther


The cons:
-95 additional fuel for a tank that only has 200 more hp and 70 armor over a panther (enough additional fuel to field a stug or almost a p4)
-Tiger has less range than the Panther
-Tiger's main gun has the same damage as a Panzer 4
-Lower penetration percentage compared to a panther
-Lower mobility stats (obviously)
-The additional hp and armor is only has a mere 25% increase (non cumulative)
-Lower sight range/radius than a panther
-Slower turret rotation
-More suspectable to incoming hits as well as criticals due to the large hitbox size of the tank.
-Less suited to tank to tank combat than panther unless it is meatshielding for support weapons
-can be 1v1ed by a vet 2 SU-85

Proposed buffs/changes for the Tiger:
-Increase the reload time, similar to the IS-2's reload
-Increase damage of main gun.
-Increase durability
-Increase range

Reason?
This change will make players actually make use of the Tiger in in where each Tiger 88mm shot would count (choosing either infantry or tank), rather than the current mediocre 88mm anti infantry gun it has. The Tiger was not a menance on the Eastern Front not just because it oblitterated tons of russian infantry, it was feared because German tank aces scored hundreds upon hundreds of Tank kills. Right now, the Tiger in its current state is only semi-efficient when fighting off hordes of regular infantry(because Soviet infantry AT damage is so bad). The current stats on the Tiger needs some buffs and/or tweaks to make it suitable for tank to tank combat or it will continue to be very cost inefficent for its price versus what the panther can do.

Conculsions for the Tiger:
You pay more for the Tiger to underperform a panther.
250 fuel = (2 panzers) or (a Panther and a stug)


Now for the IS-2

The pros:
-Massive AOE, 2x the size of the Tiger's 88mm's anti infantry capabilities
-Faster than the Tiger in mobility and acceleration

The cons:
-Nearly 3 times the fuel price of the SU-85 TD
-Does the same amount of damage as a Panzer 4
-Costs 50 more fuel than the Tiger
-Has less durability than the Tiger
-Higher reload time than the Tiger by 3 seconds
-Anti Tank capabilities are on the same level as the Tiger (which is extremely bad and cost inefficent)
-Has less range than the panther
-More suspectable to incoming hits as well as criticals due to the large hitbox size of the tank.
-Less suited to tank to tank combat unless it is meatshielding for support weapons
-vetted panther can 1v1 IS-2

Propsed buffs/changes for the IS-2
-Increase the damage of the main gun
-Increase durability
-Increase range

Reasons?
Paying for almost the price of 3x SU-85, I should at least get this much in terms of rewarding me for saving up. Right now there is almost no reason to get the IS-2 over SU-85s because it is a completely irrational choice in terms of efficency. It even has trouble facing off against a panther due to the IS-2's main gun dealing the same amount of damage as a Panther, even though a panther costs half of an IS-2 in fuel. In terms of cost, the current state of an IS-2 under performs any german tank at the moment. The IS-2 was once called a "Beast Killer," because it could stand toe to toe with german tanks, right now, it is more of a "Hunted Beast"

Conculsion:
Pay more for a IS-2 to underperform a Tiger (which is already bad in it's current state)
300 fuel = nearly 3 SU85, or 2 SU85s and a T34


Here is the original Link, although I've made some changes here.
http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/coh-2-balance-feedback/topics/TweaksBuffs-for-the-Tiger-and-IS2

There are certainly issues that should be improved for these mighty tanks. However, the costs are not accidental. The increased costs take into account the fact that you don't have to tech up (tech up cost +/or building cost) and also that there is no build-time once it is unlocked.

I fully support both being improved, especially in the tank-to-tank role, but I wouldn't hold my breath on massive fuel cost reductions.

could not agree more. these beasts need to be menacing game ending tanks (assuming the player deploying the tank has the upper hand)
I think it is a shame that Relic has not began to buff these 2 tanks at all, and really hope they are looking into it for the next balance patch! hope we see a patch this week.

edit: re the post above, maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything about a fuel cost decrease?

I agree that these tanks need buffs, but I do not agree with damage and durability buffs for Tiger, and I think the IS-2 needs a lot heavier buffs at its current price.