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Requirement for specialized call-in vehicles.

11 Apr 2018, 17:39 PM
#21
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885


But then you still dont have any additional incentive to get an ostwind anyway once you get your t4 up.

The whole point of tying the ostwind to t4 was to shutdown the okw scavenge callin build. 2 trucks and 6-8 cp is just asking for that back. Everyone will do mech into battlegroup into ostwind spam again, effectively killing all build diversity. As someone who used scavenge both before and after the patch, scavenge is a lot more healthy for the game and interesting to choose in the current patch.

Its cool and all to propose a bunch of changes so you can contribute ideas, but changing things for the sake of changing them is not the way to go.


Overly powerful callins are indeed very dangerous for build diversity. That is a given. The problem is though, that current solution, which is tying them to tech limits build diversity as well. It does it by definition and you cant tie to tech without limiting the number of builds. This is against the idea of callin that is supposed to increase build diversity by offering a slightly weaker or specialised unit for the benefit of not having to tech.

That is why I think the current solution is bad and there is a need for another one. The new solution should allow players to build doctrinal units at the moment specified by CPs and without having to tech to overly expensive late tech. Still, it should add some cost to building a callin itself, so you are not given a early tech and callin unlock for the same resources.

What I can suggest as a first idea is to add upgrade to the HQ, say for 200mp/60fu (or more), that would unlock vehicle callins in commander as long as you have required CP. That way, if you want to get for example ostwind and conserve fuel for the spam, you wont be given ability to build units from one of the early trucks. Same for usf: if you want to go m10s, its ok, you don't pay for major, but you either pay for 2 officers and upgrade which is already as much as 1 officer and major, or you skip one officer, so you have less choices when it comes to building support weapons.
11 Apr 2018, 17:48 PM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 17:06 PMLago
Aimed Shot was tweaked to be more consistent. The Raketenwerfer received suppression immunity and its projectiles no longer collide with terrain.

Given Ostwind spam existed it evidently could deal with Centaurs.

This is nerf to the Puma and it was in previous patch

"Aimed shot ability
Accuracy vs infantry suffers additional penalties while the Puma is moving.
Puma now suffers from the same accuracy penalties as OST sniper vs retreating squads"
--

Rakketn werfer got multiple nerf like:
Crew target size from 1.25 to 1
Crew weapons have lower DPS

Projectile no longer collides with terrain
Can no longer be suppressed
Veterancy 4 and 5 sight and range bonuses removed
Veterancy 1 camouflaged speed bonus from 100% to 25%

The projectile can collide with terrain from may experience maybe it does not collide with world objects.

In general they unit was nerfed not buffed.
--

Centaurs was buffed. It also has more armor than Ostwind and it is supported by good ATGs.

Accuracy versus garrisons from 0.4 to 0.5; damage versus garrisons from 0.5 to 0.35
Damage in Hold modifier from false to true; all models in a garrison will now take Far AOE damage
Acceleration from 1.5 to 1.8
Speed from 4.6 to 5.2



11 Apr 2018, 18:51 PM
#23
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 09:41 AMVipper

Ostwinds alone can not stop builds that involve heavy tanks like KV-1, Churchill or even AI tanks like the Centaur...so I am not sure why you think that OKW will only play Scavenger.

Or why you think that Ostwind alone will be a problem and not KV-8 and hezter.

In the case of OKW imo these units be available even if they T4 building is destroyed.

I didnt speak to kv-8s and hetzers because I dont have experience using them. Im not saying that they wouldnt be a problem, they could be. But ostwinds most definitely would be a problem.

You dont have to stop centaurs, kv1s, or churchills when you can consistently stomp games before they come out, thats how the build worked.

A lot of those nerfs you mentioned to okw stuff arent too relevant because the point of the build is that the mechanized units alone (pumas and ostwinds) would do all the work for you. More than that, why even change the ostwind or the m10 to begin with? Its a step in the wrong direction.
11 Apr 2018, 18:55 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


I didnt speak to kv-8s and hetzers because I dont have experience using them. Im not saying that they wouldnt be a problem, they could be. But ostwinds most definitely would be a problem.

You dont have to stop centaurs, kv1s, or churchills when you can consistently stomp games before they come out, thats how the build worked.

A lot of those nerfs you mentioned to okw stuff arent too relevant because the point of the build is that the mechanized units alone (pumas and ostwinds) would do all the work for you. More than that, why even change the ostwind or the m10 to begin with? Its a step in the wrong direction.

Because both the ostwind and m10 offer very little with their new high tech cost (especially the ostwind with the cheaper P4 and the more effective AAHT).

Once more in the case of the OKW imo these vehicles should be available even if the T4 is destroyed.
11 Apr 2018, 19:04 PM
#25
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

The Puma nerf was warranted as the aim shot was basically a guaranteed kill on 1 model retreating squads, considering the Puma isn't a AI LV it was pretty dumb.

Issue is that you don't want the Call in meta back from the dead, yet many of these units are useless as is now (m10 compared to jackson, ostwind compared to p4). Maybe a higher costs for all call ins to compensate for being call in again?
11 Apr 2018, 19:42 PM
#26
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 18:55 PMVipper

Because both the ostwind and m10 offer very little with their new high tech cost (especially the ostwind with the cheaper P4 and the more effective AAHT).

Once more in the case of the OKW imo these vehicles should be available even if the T4 is destroyed.

Being significantrly cheaper is reason enough, isnt it? It's at least better than callin meta.
11 Apr 2018, 20:33 PM
#27
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

If the ostwind was as strong as a centaur and had AA as good as it as well, MAYBE i'd consider it for teamgames, and an even FURTHER MAYBE for 1v1. Although it would be highly effective in the AI department and AA department, it also needs to warrent the commander choice as well.
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