An open letter to the CoHmmunity about rebroadcasting

How about just stop letting this helpinghans guy play in tounaments you organize if he is just undermining them? Or do you need him more than he needs you?

Because this post isn't meant to be about bashing Hans. He's made the mistake which has sparked this discussion, but this isn't a forum to discuss how we are going to deal with it.

The idea is for people to speak out so that the community can see what the general consensus is on acceptable behaviour regarding restreaming and unauthorized broadcasts (no permission from the organisers)

How about just stop letting this helpinghans guy play in tounaments you organize if he is just undermining them? Or do you need him more than he needs you?

Another reason I made the poll. So that it does not become a popularity contest. So it is not decided behind closed doors by a select few (most of which are against Hans in this thread).

Because the obvious answer is have a ruling body as part of COH2.Org that makes the tournament, rules, allowable times, who is banned from play, etc. So each tourney could have a seal of approval that it is legit. Thus removing any grey areas. But it may divide the community further because most of the people making the rulings would be people against Hans, etc.

So I nominate Sturmpanther as Lord and Dictator of all COH2. Heil Sturmpanther!

I'm pretty sure this spiraled a little out of control after HH attempted to defend himself when clearly in the wrong. I pretty certain an immediate apology would have made Stormless, AE and other casters much happier then what he did as everyone here is invested in making the competitive scene healthy, in which this is an issue that needs to be discussed before it gets out of hand. It was also the decent thing to do as using other people's work is inexcusable.

At the same time saying his insight was better than the casters during the UTT stream is rude and honestly incorrect. As siddolio stated hes a top 2v2 player with just as much insight into the 2v2 meta as hans and to say you know better is discrediting siddolio as a top 2v2 player.

I also think a couple of ground rules should be stated as it seems not everyone has the same "unwritten rules" about how this stuff occurs.

Rebroadcasting over a stream is not under any circumstance okay, unless given specific permission of the owners/directors and the owners of the stream are credited.

Streaming Coh2, in general, is okay as the directors do not have a right to ask you to not, as long as it's your own gameplay then its okay to stream during events. The directors can ask you politely if you would rather switch games, but it is up to your own discretion if you actually will and the directors have to accept that.

Casters who are not part of the "official" cast should not cast any streams of the events unless under specific circumstances. For example, when tightrope casted GCS 1 it didn't have the intent for profit, it was because of the bad audio and his attempt to create a more enjoyable experience, this, of course, is up to fellow casters who should set ground rules.

The solution to this is simple and honestly should not have created any drama but this became a PR nightmare after everyone started pointing fingers at each other. HH should come out with a sincere formal apology to Curahee and other casters/directors of the UTT. Everything else should be settled privately.

Ad revenue is fairly small to be honest.

I am more focused on arguing the principles that you shouldn't try to make money off the back of others hard work. It's a message to anyone who is reading this that we're asking you to be considerate and that your contribution to the scene can be as little as allowing people to reap rewards from their work whether it's viewership, exclusive live casting, follows donations or ad revenue etc.

.....

Explain this in the context of OCF, please? Or is it time to end this thread?

Because the obvious answer is have a ruling body as part of COH2.Org that makes the tournament, rules, allowable times, who is banned from play, etc. So each tourney could have a seal of approval that it is legit. Thus removing any grey areas. But it may divide the community further because most of the people making the rulings would be people against Hans, etc.

So I nominate Sturmpanther as Lord and Dictator of all COH2. Heil Sturmpanther!

Just so that you know. Myself, Sturmpanther, Currahee, AE, and Hooligan have an actual committee agreement to discuss players and tournament rulings etc together. Even if it's not our event personally, we still confer with each other and make group decisions which apply to all tournaments.

So this already privately exists and it is us who have decided to make this public discussion.

Explain this in the context of OCF, please? Or is it time to end this thread?

I don't understand what you mean? I didn't have anything to do with OCF other than make videos for CoH2.orgs YouTube 'The Weekly Review'. I did no casting of any matches

Depends on if you run ads willingly and how many mobile watchers/desktop watchers without adblock you have.

A stream with 100-200 avg concurrent viewers with just the "intro ad" when you first click the stream would make about 20-30 USD a month from ad revenue.

So if you had a stream that was partnered (as affiliates do not get ad revenue) broadcasting a tournament and between matches they ran ad's to the same average above, it would ad up very quickly, and most likely help fund further events, this is of course outside donations.

Hope that helps make it a bit clearer.

So say instead of hosting Seasonal Map Cup on one stream you hosted it on two. Each stream has a different caster and is casting different matches. Assuming all revenue is directed to the same pot is this inherently disadvantageous?

I don't understand what you mean? I didn't have anything to do with OCF other than make videos for CoH2.orgs YouTube 'The Weekly Review'. I did no casting of any matches

Don't be disingenuous, please. You rode in on the back of the success of OCF. If you had stayed loyal to the community, which you did not, then ESL would have run on our terms. You know? All the posters who paid, took a chance and supported OCF? And told Relic we were pissed off at being ignored?

But then some 'adventurers' crept in and snuck up to Relic. They 'leeched' the OCF aura. You are harping at Hans for taking a trick : it's just what you did to us. I didn't like it then, and I don't like what's happening now.

What is your next trick? To tar and feather Hans>?

Once you start to proselytize, as Ciez used to do, it's time to call a halt - or face your own demons.

I think this thread has run its course?

So say instead of hosting Seasonal Map Cup on one stream you hosted it on two. Each stream has a different caster and is casting different matches. Assuming all revenue is directed to the same pot is this inherently disadvantageous?

Well it would have to use the same paypal, and most likely not a streamers personal one, but one setup specifically for the tourney. Like I have, just for transparency reasons, not necessarily for this.

But there could be hiccups with different currencies and things like that but they are all minuscule. Really it wouldn't matter with the transparency, but that only covers donations. It would not cover a sub, or ad revenue, as it would still go to the streamers personal payout option that they file with twitch when they apply for partnership/affiliate. So that would be an area to muck it up. However that is generally insignificant for the most part.

I believe that if a tournament cannot have all matches cast, it is good to cast them after and upload to wherever you want, in the case of a player/another caster "recasting" a game from a tournament, simply crediting in the description with appropriate links would suffice (at least for me personally). That is what I am trying to do with this tourney of mine, but will have to see how it works.

Either way, sorry if I am rambling a bit, my mind is scatter brained working on things and not sleeping more than 3 hours.

obligatory popcorn gif

Don't be disingenuous, please. You rode in on the back of the success of OCF. If you had stayed loyal to the community, which you did not, then ESL would have run on our terms. You know? All the posters who paid, took a chance and supported OCF? And told Relic we were pissed off at being ignored?

But then some 'adventurers' crept in and snuck up to Relic. They 'leeched' the OCF aura. You are harping at Hans for taking a trick : it's just what you did to us. I didn't like it then, and I don't like what's happening now.

What is your next trick? To tar and feather Hans>?

Once you start to proselytize, as Ciez used to do, it's time to call a halt - or face your own demons.

I think this thread has run its course?

What on earth has OCF got to do with any of this, as far as I know Stormless wasn't even slightly involved in OCF. I personally cast one game... The ESL oppurtunity for Dan came from casting Kreatiir's tournaments and for me StrategicZoomCast at the time.

Also on the Relic thing, I will raise with you in staff, as in public is not the place to talk about it.

ESL would've never have run on "your" terms, bridges with Relic were burned well before OCF. How much money was asked again to run it "on your terms"?

What on earth has OCF got to do with any of this, as far as I know Stormless wasn't even slightly involved in OCF. I personally cast one game... The ESL oppurtunity for Dan came from casting Kreatiir's tournaments and for me StrategicZoomCast at the time.

And on the back of OCF...

Also on the Relic thing, I will raise with you in staff, as in public is not the place to talk about it.

Do, please!

As you are the OP, I suggest it is time to call a halt here? (Second time of asking). You should all have your conclusions by now?

I highly doubt if there is anything more to be suggested for better tourney organisation?

ESL would've never have run on "your" terms, bridges with Relic were burned well before OCF. How much money was asked again to run it "on your terms"?

Iirc, you were one of the first to suggest Crowdfunding as a way to deal with Relic's offhandedness?

Just want to make a brief notification, there is currently another guy on the forums active also called 'Hooligan'. This guy is not an acc of my brother |GB| The Hooligan, so plz don't confuse the statements this guy makes with the ones my brothers. (Since i know that some people have issues with reading tags LUL and to prevent any problems.

Just trying to prevent confusion

And on the back of OCF...



Do, please!

As you are the OP, I suggest it is time to call a halt here? (Second time of asking). You should all have your conclusions by now?

I highly doubt if there is anything more to be suggested for better tourney organisation?

The only problem I see with this thread as it stands is you have mentioned unrelated things from 2 years ago, and stirred up Von Kluge vs. Bloodnok etc, is that not off topic???

If you close this thread it will simply manifest elsewhere on the site, just keep it open and move it somewhere you don't have to look at it or something.

edit: That said the actual discussion side of this debate has pretty much run its course, so if it really must be closed I'm sure no one would mind. It's a moderator decision.

Don't be disingenuous, please. You rode in on the back of the success of OCF. If you had stayed loyal to the community, which you did not, then ESL would have run on our terms.

I didn't have anything to do with OCF. I actually contributed by making some videos for your YouTube channel and didn't cast any games.

Yes, I took an opportunity to cast ESL when it was offered to me. I didn't realise anyone from CoH2.org disliked me for that.

Once you start to proselytize, as Ciez used to do, it's time to call a halt - or face your own demons.

I think this thread has run its course?

I'm actually surprised as a red badge that you're going to derail this thread and then think for a moment I should close it at your request.

No.

I have nothing to hide from anyone in this community. We can do this in public in the open right now as you've decided that is best.

Just so that you know. Myself, Sturmpanther, Currahee, AE, and Hooligan have an actual committee agreement to discuss players and tournament rulings etc together. Even if it's not our event personally, we still confer with each other and make group decisions which apply to all tournaments.

So this already privately exists and it is us who have decided to make this public discussion.

So say some one else wanted to organize a coh2 tourney how does that work do they have to run it by you guys or can anyone from the community just come in and decide to organize a tourney?

So say some one else wanted to organize a coh2 tourney how does that work do they have to run it by you guys or can anyone from the community just come in and decide to organize a tourney?

Anyone - uhm this thread is just about having organised a tourney and sourced/ fronted a prizepool, the person(s) that do that have the broadcast rights. If you wanna organise a tourney coolio!

So say some one else wanted to organize a coh2 tourney how does that work do they have to run it by you guys or can anyone from the community just come in and decide to organize a tourney?

It's a group where we discuss our own tournaments and talk about players and other rulings. It's not like we are dictating who can do things or controlling anything in the tournament scene. We share/store evidence and details of trolling, rule-breaking and other things that may go towards setting up rules or restrictions for people to play in tournaments.

Anyone can run a tournament. That's got nothing to do with us. We are just a group of friends who manage our own tournaments and events together. It's not exclusive