Churchill tank is the most OP unit ingame

the conclusion is that something needs to be done about the Churchill as it is to much of a jack of all trades.

1. Its armour is super high
2. It's hp is rediculous
3. It is great vs infantry
4. It is great vs tanks
5. It's cheap as peanuts for its performance.
6. It has smoke so even after surviving 12 shots it can just disappear.
7. It has no limit and can be built unlimited times.

Its literally a medium sized king tiger with smoke.

Only the 1st and 2nd points have strong merit. The rest are rather subjective and churchills are certainly no KT. Especially in damage output.

But their armor along with their incredible HP pool is worth noting. While the front armor for the churchill is only 240, it is 290 for the AVRE and Croc. However, the former has 1400 health and the latter two only 1080. Mixing them up ingame can highly skew your opinions: the variants will bounce shots, the stock version won't as much.

However, they all have a rear armor of 180. I don't think there's a single unit that has as much rear armor except perhaps KV tanks. As a result, Churchills often become a trap for flanking maneuvers. (Its rear armor is as strong as P4 front armor.) Instead they are much more easily dealt with by head-on brute force, like most post-EFA designs. Ironically, OKW is probably the least equipped to deal with Churchills since all their capable AT is in their flakHQ.

As a result the unit itself does more to dictate your opponent's strategy than your own, which is probably the most consistently frustrating thing about the whole British faction.

Only the 1st and 2nd points have strong merit. The rest are rather subjective and churchills are certainly no KT. Especially in damage output.

But their armor along with their incredible HP pool is worth noting. While the front armor for the churchill is only 240, it is 290 for the AVRE and Croc. However, the former has 1400 health and the latter two only 1080. Mixing them up ingame can highly skew your opinions: the variants will bounce shots, the stock version won't as much.

However, they all have a rear armor of 180. I don't think there's a single unit that has as much rear armor except perhaps KV tanks. As a result, Churchills often become a trap for flanking maneuvers. (Its rear armor is as strong as P4 front armor.) Instead they are much more easily dealt with by head-on brute force, like most post-EFA designs. Ironically, OKW is probably the least equipped to deal with Churchills since all their capable AT is in their flakHQ.

As a result the unit itself does more to dictate your opponent's strategy than your own, which is probably the most consistently frustrating thing about the whole British faction.

Lots of good things in this post, specificailly in the final sentence which is the most frustrating thing about these units.

IIRC the KV-1 does indeed have 180 rear armor.

I like the changes to Mechanized, but I think the WC51 should lose the off-map. Mark I can sort of get even if I don't like it, but that 155mm barrage should be a full ability in another commander. It's just odd on the WC51.

Lots of good things in this post, specificailly in the final sentence which is the most frustrating thing about these units.

IIRC the KV-1 does indeed have 180 rear armor.

I also agree with this, as a brit main, despite their blindingly obvious issues, the ease you have predicting other people next move in games is probably the brits main strength.

If you build a mortar pit, you know they HAVE to destroy it or they'll lose so you can immediately expect massed indirect fire allowing you to sweeping advance most of their team weapons with infantry or an infantry flame nade push.

Same works for churchills, if you have a churchill and a 6pdr, you know they are very likely to build a jagdpanzer or multiple stugs in order to counter you as no other tank can has the dps required. This means you know they are sacrificing anti infantry with their armour for example.

The British faction relies entirely on crutch units in order to be relevant right now which dictate the game. The thing is brits really have no alternative as of now, I don't believe brits need a total revamp as some would like but they need to look at balancing all units in the faction roster rather than nerfing the obviously powerful ones and buffing the obviously weak ones. Like the comet... fix... the... comet...

fix the comet and you'll see less churchills for a start.

At this point people should clarify mostly if they are talking about 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3+ cause i'm not seeing the Churchills (or UKF) rolling over been the meta.

Firstly I gotta ask why on earth are people comparing PIV's (both variants) to Churchills MK VII? That's like comparing PIV's to panthers or comets and being surprised one can reliably beat the other.

The only counterpart to the Churchill is the KV series and they all perform the role of damage sponge and their usefulness is, as many have stated, situational. Its main gun has the same stats as the Cromwell, just slower reload. Its MG power is neither here nor there, so its mildly threatening to infantry and its AT power is mediocre at best - its not a dps machine.

The only problem that this unit presents is that its hard to get rid of. But if in doubt, just get more AT guns. A pair of paks or racks will send a Churchill running. UKF don't get natural indirect units, so their ability to counter your AT guns will be limited.

In team games, I refrain from building the Churchill because by the time it hits the field, there are plenty of AT sources and its impact will be minimal. Better to rather invest in more Fireflies to deal with the inevitable build up of panthers and axis heavies.

At this point people should clarify mostly if they are talking about 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3+ cause i'm not seeing the Churchills (or UKF) rolling over been the meta.

They probably steamroll over rank 4k team games axis players as these ones complained the most.
They apparently stomp over high knowledge, but low skill players who play at least 2v2 as well.

Anyway, churchill and current KV-1 are examples of well balanced heavies, maybe not in vet stats, but base stats are good, they fulfill the role, they are cost efficient, but not cheap at all and they have clear weakness to much cheaper units.

I still favour speed for the most part. Having extra armour/hp is negated half the time by the fact the Churchill is exposed to frontal AT fire for a longer period of time than cromwell/comet.

The Problem on this church: when u Play samrt u build 2-3 in teamgames from them. Dealing with three of them is nearly inpossible...u cant ignor them..but cant destroy them. All Units behind it...have free fire

The Problem on this church: when u Play samrt u build 2-3 in teamgames from them. Dealing with three of them is nearly inpossible...u cant ignor them..but cant destroy them. All Units behind it...have free fire

And how are they going to win against 6-8 PaKs and 2-4 panthers again?

And how are they going to win against 6-8 PaKs and 2-4 panthers again?

Thing is, due to pop cap, you can't have both 2-4 panthers and 6-8 paks as well as a fighting force, you can quite easily have 3 churchills and avre/croc on the field to deal with everything. 4 churchills are a match for that many panthers and if you build a pak wall, they'll push you with infantry and it's gg.

Thing is, due to pop cap, you can't have both 2-4 panthers and 6-8 paks as well as a fighting force, you can quite easily have 3 churchills and avre/croc on the field to deal with everything. 4 churchills are a match for that many panthers and if you build a pak wall, they'll push you with infantry and it's gg.

Team games were specifically mentioned.
If you can't have these units between 3-4 players, maybe you should reconsider how you play team games and with who.

In a team game if you've got multiple people trying to counter one player's churchills, you're losing elsewhere, you need to be able to kill them yourself somewhat reliably. a 3v3 us essentially 3 1v1s.

In a team game if you've got multiple people trying to counter one player's churchills, you're losing elsewhere, you need to be able to kill them yourself somewhat reliably. a 3v3 us essentially 3 1v1s.

And if one player is pushing alone to the point, where he single handedly overruns all opposing players, its not exactly churchills fault either.

no definitely not, you're right. I think the churchill is good, I don't think it's OP particularly, I think a lot of axis players need to just learn how to deal with them because where it shines is the fact that the things you expect to work don't. The only thing that I think might a be a little too powerful is the retreating through it's own smoke, the tank already as godlike survivability. They are definitely Big green Cockroaches right now. XD

In a team game if you've got multiple people trying to counter one player's churchills, you're losing elsewhere, you need to be able to kill them yourself somewhat reliably. a 3v3 us essentially 3 1v1s.

Its a lot of fuel/pop cap to have 3 churchills on a single brit player. I doubt youll face double/triple brits in most games and if they can bring 3 churchills out then you should have panthers/tds/atguns that can beat them back.

The Churchill is definitely a good unit that gets propped up since the Comet is god awful and it is very powerful if you manage to get it out when axis players dont have proper counters. But those counters arent particular difficult to get before the churchill comes out.

JP IV
Stug
Jagdtiger
Elefant

/thread

^^^^ although a thing worth mentioning is that the jagtiger and elefant counter all armour not just the churchill. In fact I'd argue it counters churchills the least because of their giant health pool. Also you need at least 2 stugs, a churchill will beat the crap out of one stug.

Man, the churchill was such an OP tank, it's all we saw in the tournament...

Wait, no, we didn't see a single british pick.. Man we better nerf the Churchill too.

Man, the churchill was such an OP tank, it's all we saw in the tournament...

Wait, no, we didn't see a single british pick.. Man we better nerf the Churchill too.

Don't even joke about this......they'll probably nerf the Crocodile again just for good measure XD