Super heavies/TD overhaul mod

Halo here is the address of a little mod I am working on:
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1322328190

the MOD is UNDER CONSTRUCTION


This mod is not a balance MOD but a MOD aiming at fixing the serious issue of super heavy tanks performance and the performance of certain TDs. To be more specific tries to solve the issue of TDs being able to tuckle super-heavy tank while not completely shut down other vehicles.

Definitions:

1) Super heavies
The term is used to describe the following vehicles:
King Tiger
Jagdtiger
Elephant
ISU-152
IS-2
KV-2

2) Heavy TDs
The term is used to describe vehicles specially designed to counter Super heavies. The category includes the following vehicles:
Panther OKW
Panther Osth
M36
SU-85
Firefly

Changes so far:
Greatly increase the target size of the super heavies (size around 40).

Equip all Heavy TD with switchable munition.

One has low accuracy and high penetration and is suitable vs Super heavies.

The other has normal accuracy but low Penetration and is suitable vs mediums.


Reason this allow me to balance super heavies separately since only specific unit/munition are suitable against them.

ISU?

Elefant and Jagdtiger are super heavies instead of heavy TDs? What?

Gimme a penetration value estimate for both types of ammunition. Also swap timer.

Gimme a penetration value estimate for both types of ammunition. Also swap timer.

Penetration values for "super AP" around the current ones, with an accuracy around half

Penetration values for normal around stug's, accuracy lower than current.

The normal AP rounds are design vs mediums. One will probably have to lower the armor value of some Premium mediums like Panther/comet/Pershing.

Pls clarify timers remark I am a bit new to MODing

ISU?

sorry forgot to include it, that had its TS increased also.

The idea is the these TDs do not perform according to cost vs mediums and there is little reason to be build if the enemy is not using Super heavies.

In the case of the USF and even the UKF one could lower the building price for this units since there no alternative TDs and have the "super AP" as buy-able upgrade.

Penetration values for "super AP" around the current ones, with an accuracy around half

Penetration values for normal around stug's, accuracy lower than current.

The normal AP rounds are design vs mediums. One will probably have to lower the armor value of some Premium mediums like Panther/comet/Pershing.

Pls clarify timers remark I am a bit new to MODing

I mean what would be the duration for swapping ammo. Sorry for confusion.

I mean what would be the duration for swapping ammo. Sorry for confusion.

Think around a reload, the idea is that "super AP" round are too incarcerate to be used vs normal targets so there is little reason to swap to munitions unless you are also swapping targets.

Not even touching the crocodile?

Not even touching the crocodile?

The armor level of the crocodile is much lower than "super heavies" class.

The idea of the mod is not to balance the whole game just to test if another approach would be viable for making both "super heavies" and "heavy Tds" work without being OP.

Currently units like Su-85/ff/M36 shut down completely the PzIV since they are balance to handle the KT and that causes a number of issues.

I don't see the point, unless you want mediums to bounce tank destroyers.

I don't see the point, unless you want mediums to bounce tank destroyers.

As I have explained TD have a penetration around the one stugs has, they will bounce on mediums mostly on max range (60).

The changes aims to "create" 2 categories and balance them separately:
1) Super heavies, these can be hit easily but only specialized rounds can penetrate them. The units become strong if the appropriate counters are not build.

2) The rest of the vehicles.

If penetration values vs mediums proves too low one can simply re-balance them by increase the penetration in that category.

I still don't get the necessity. A 140ish fuel tank destroyer beats a 140ish fuel medium tank one on one, which is good. A couple of 140ish fuel tank destroyers beat a 230ish fuel heavy tank. That also makes sense.

What needs changing?

I still don't get the necessity. A 140ish fuel tank destroyer beats a 140ish fuel medium tank one on one, which is good. A couple of 140ish fuel tank destroyers beat a 230ish fuel heavy tank. That also makes sense.

What needs changing?

Heavy tank destroyers end up having 100% chance to hit and penetrate mediums in ranges up to 60.

That makes mediums tanks rather obsolete in late game.

this create the room for medium TD and Heavy TD all to exist and have role.

Pls try the MOD if you have more questions.

The StuG III, Jagdpanzer IV, Sherman Firefly, SU-85 and M-36 Jackson are dedicated AT units: apart from the StuG III they do pretty much nothing to infantry.

You're suggesting turning them into some sort of silver bullet that isn't especially good at what it's literally for, but is a necessity to take down heavies.

You field Vipper Tank Destroyers, they'll spam mediums and you lose. Why? Because you don't win the armour battle, and they win the infantry battle as their tanks have AI and yours don't.

You don't field Vipper Tank Destroyers and build your own mediums? They'll field a heavy tank you can't fight with mediums. You'll lose the armor battle, and that heavy is pretty solid against infantry too.

The StuG III, Jagdpanzer IV, Sherman Firefly, SU-85 and M-36 Jackson are dedicated AT units: apart from the StuG III they do pretty much nothing to infantry.

You're suggesting turning them into some sort of silver bullet that isn't especially good at what it's literally for, but is a necessity to take down heavies.

You field Vipper Tank Destroyers, they'll spam mediums and you lose. Why? Because you don't win the armour battle, and they win the infantry battle as their tanks have AI and yours don't.

You don't field Vipper Tank Destroyers and build your own mediums? They'll field a heavy tank you can't fight with mediums. You'll lose the armor battle, and that heavy is pretty solid against infantry too.

The heavy tanks destroyer will destroy mediums they simply will make them obsolete since they UP for Cost.

If the enemy call-in a Super heavy you can counter with the heavy tanks destroyer, if not medium tds is a more cost efficient solution.

Once more simply test the MOD.

Sounds like your trying to fix something that isnt really broken. The units are doing the jobs they were intended for.

This would be a huge buff to panthers as allies tank destroyers either a) wont be able to hit them or b) wont be able to penetrate them.

JT and Ele should be in both categories or is it fine for axis HTD to counter every vehicle they shoot at.

You dont have the Ost Tiger in the list but have the IS2.

This all seems very axis biased.

Sounds like your trying to fix something that isnt really broken. The units are doing the jobs they were intended for.

This would be a huge buff to panthers as allies tank destroyers either a) wont be able to hit them or b) wont be able to penetrate them.

JT and Ele should be in both categories or is it fine for axis HTD to counter every vehicle they shoot at.

You dont have the Ost Tiger in the list but have the IS2.

This all seems very axis biased.

All the units listed as super heavies have armor above 300. Neither Panther nor Tiger have such high armor.

Let me try to explain what the current problem the armor bonus Brumbar and Panther get at vet 2 is currently completely useless vs a vet 2 Su-85 since it has 100% chance to penetrate vs both a Vet 0 Panther and a vet 2 panther.

Sounds like your trying to fix something that isnt really broken. The units are doing the jobs they were intended for.

This would be a huge buff to panthers as allies tank destroyers either a) wont be able to hit them or b) wont be able to penetrate them.

JT and Ele should be in both categories or is it fine for axis HTD to counter every vehicle they shoot at.

You dont have the Ost Tiger in the list but have the IS2.

This all seems very axis biased.

I think he only wants to focus on armor values above 300 that is why he didn't include the pershing either. Brummbär armor could also be looked at especially after vet2 (260 armor-> 338 armor hp stays at 800) especially if your Superheavy threshold is the 300 armor notation. I think it would be reasonable to lower kv-2s armor (atleast rear) and to remove it from the list aswell as the KV-2 should get countered by swarming or flanking with medium tanks just like the JT/Ele and ISU-152 as it shares their mobility problems and has a similar low rate of fire that can still lead to devastating results.

I think he only wants to focus on armor values above 300 that is why he didn't include the pershing either. Brummbär armor could also be looked at especially after vet2 (260 armor-> 338 armor hp stays at 800) especially if your Superheavy threshold is the 300 armor notation. I think it would be reasonable to lower kv-2s armor (atleast rear) and to remove it from the list aswell as the KV-2 should get countered by swarming or flanking with medium tanks just like the JT/Ele and ISU-152 as it shares their mobility problems and has a similar low rate of fire that can still lead to devastating results.

Brumbar armor has been reduced in Live. it 288 at vet 2.

Brumbar armor has been reduced in Live. it 288 at vet 2.

Must have used old numbers thanks for the information.