What to do against Soviet double sniper in 2v2

This goes for OKW as well. What are you supposed to do? All the counters you have to snipers aren't reliable at all.

You can't countersnipe like can you against the british sniper, because it's a two man sniper squad, you may be able to poke one model off of it but after first shot it turns into a who can outsnipe who meta, excpet he has TWO models in his sniper squad, effectively meaning he can afford to make a mistake with it, while you have a lone operator (it may be beefier but when you're talking a oneshot scenario health doesn't matter). Maybe you can try to get him with the snipe into incendiary round to wipe the two, but if your opponent is incompetent enough to let that happen, then this post doesn't apply to you.

Against competent players, what are you supposed to do?

You can't use vehicles (cheeky kubelwagen will really only work if he's not paying attention) because of all the reliable anti-tank that Soviets have, OST Scout car is a terrible option as by the time you get it he'll likely have dedicated anti tank since this is 2v2, any later than that and the damage will be irreversible. Maybe rush a walking stuka and go for the cheeky artillery strike counter snipe :^) ?

Even beating the Soviet out early wouldn't matter, as it's only a matter of time before the attrition starts.

The only thing I found I could do was G43 blob in his general direction, but that's easily counterable, he'll see me coming with his vision superiority and adjust his MG, and the fact that he can bring my squad to half men in a fraction of a second forces me to retreat that unit or risk losing them.

You can't use a mortar to deal with that MG because the Soviet sniper is destroying your infantry, so you have no screening to prevent his infantry from running at your mortar, and even if you "place an MG to counter the push onto your mortar", he will just right click his snipers onto your MG, potentially wiping half of the squad immediately as well. Not to mention the mortar squad is a 4 man squad that is force wiped if it gets to one model.

You can attempt to flank him with shotblockers, but if he's competent, he'll have some sort of screening and see the move coming, and adjust accordingly (likely using the vision superiority his snipers are giving him).

Yes I am aware that this would take a 720 manpower investment on his part, and you can easily outflank him early and push his units back while capping the vast majority of his side of the map since he invested 360 manpower into a non-core infantry unit, but just because you won early does not mean you'll win the midgame, especially when he starts forcing your infantry back and you rapidly lose map control.

I am asking for 2v2, I have zero problems dealing with soviet sniper in 1v1.

Well, I guess if you can always just snipe one guy and then instantly smash the retreat button, those 90s of manpower will start adding up in no time.

Other than that, there is nothing. Perhaps some doctrinal cloak and lure them close, but... nothing very reliable.

I guess this becomes a Soviet meta very soon.

Keep Jäger Infantry doctrine in your loadout. If you see a sniper -> press the button. Double soviet snipers vs. cloaked MGs and infantry is useless. Also spam G43 grens and blob them up.

With OKW: Super aggression early on with a Kübel and Sturmpioneer/Volks combo. Soviet sniper strats dont work well vs. competent OKW players. Once you had superior map control in first few minutes you rush a flak HT and soviet T1 builds are fucked because no AT guns and PTRS is meh vs flak HT if properly positioned.

A lot of it has to do with what the non-sniper player is doing. If you can draw that player out of position you'll likely be able to bully the snipers.

Double sniper teams usually entail two players pushing one side. Use that to your advantage and maneuver/flank with your ally. All failing one or both should be able to take the rest of the map.

If the other player is going t2 soviet w/ conscripts or a UKF vickers into WASP bren your best bet really is a blob of G43 grens. Your strat is pretty much surviving long enough to tech to the midgame. Just remember you'll likely fighting a 2v1 in many cases, so don't expect am advantage.

That said, if you're up against soviet snipers with USF support I find it much easier to draw soviet snipers into over extending, whereas t2 soviet or UKF support tends to dig in and lock you down/out of fuel or vps.

The reason why soviet sniper strategies are not and will not be meta in high level 2v2 play is twofold.

Firstly, building a sniper gives you a disadvantage in the early game when aggressively establishing map control is most important. If you've built one early, your opponents will have more infantry than you and can end up over-running your position. I get your point about early game map control not being the be-all and end all, composition is also important. But having more resources than your soviet opponent gives you loads of options to counter whatever he has - getting early armour like ostwinds to keep up pressure on the map, upgrading your infantry, mining the shit out of chokepoints, building bunkers, building an artillery piece to hammer him as he tries to come out of his base...

The second reason is that the ostheer mortar is currently dictating the 2v2 meta, from what we've seen from the limited games so far in the Ultimate Team Tournament. Players like Barton are spamming these and sniper play offers no solution to them. Mortars wipe snipers from behind cover with alarming regularity. Not only do mortars wipe snipers, they can also allow your infantry to easily flank and kill them using smoke barrages.

That's not to say that snipers are useless, but they are a more difficult and risky playstyle in 2v2 than simply opting for conscripts - t2 - light vehicle play.

The reason why soviet sniper strategies are not and will not be meta in high level 2v2 play is twofold.

Another reason is that the double sniper build works only on open maps, exactly the ones soviets try to avoid and veto, just becouse all the other soviet infantry units are in the disadvantage on such maps. So I think of double sniper build as more of a counter to problematic map than a meta build, although it can be really good if done right and if the opponent doesn't use the mortar meta.

Keep Jäger Infantry doctrine in your loadout. If you see a sniper -> press the button. Double soviet snipers vs. cloaked MGs and infantry is useless. Also spam G43 grens and blob them up.

With OKW: Super aggression early on with a Kübel and Sturmpioneer/Volks combo. Soviet sniper strats dont work well vs. competent OKW players. Once you had superior map control in first few minutes you rush a flak HT and soviet T1 builds are fucked because no AT guns and PTRS is meh vs flak HT if properly positioned.

You think a competent player isn't going to notice your lack of units present? Or send in an engineer squad as usual to check for mines before a push, uncovering your units? And even if it works once, the odds of you getting THAT much success out of an ambush ability is slim to none, all the stars would have to align for you and your opponent would have to be an idiot.

Further, two things. Proposing somebody blobs infantry to try to counter a discrepancy in the strength of their units should ONLY have any use when applied to Soviets, as they are the only army that should be forced to play this way. Blobbing units is literally promoting a lack of micro abilities, I have had countless MG42's get run down by an infantry blob because he simply right clicked every unit onto my MG and the MG user in the squad died before getting to suppress the blob (to which the only counter is to have multiple MG's, but that is very easily countered by mortars, vehicles, and smoke grenades). Grenadier blobs do well for the first few shots, but once they start getting shot back at, their models VERY quickly drop, and so does their damage.

Nothing is stopping your opponent from getting snipers two units in either. They can get basic infantry to screen for those snipers to stop you from taking them down. They can put down mines as well, they can tech up as well. This is 2v2 and this is soviets we're talking about. They are not Wehrmacht, who have to battle phase up AND build a building, they are not OKW, who have to call in a truck and then build that truck into a building. And while you might be getting your cap on, he's bleeding you for manpower every step of the way, which is a resource you NEED to tech up, and if he's playing correctly, he's not losing all that much manpower (the only thing preventative in any way to Soviet teching is manpower costs, as they are a manpower heavy faction).

The second reason is that the ostheer mortar is currently dictating the 2v2 meta, from what we've seen from the limited games so far in the Ultimate Team Tournament. Players like Barton are spamming these and sniper play offers no solution to them. Mortars wipe snipers from behind cover with alarming regularity. Not only do mortars wipe snipers, they can also allow your infantry to easily flank and kill them using smoke barrages.

Can you link a replay or a youtube clip? I find it hard to believe that a 4 man mortar squad would dominate the meta against players with competent mechanical ability. Preferably a match where somebody like DevM or Luvnest is present on opposing teams? I've noticed the top 1% are FAR better than the top 3%.

Can you link a replay or a youtube clip? I find it hard to believe that a 4 man mortar squad would dominate the meta against players with competent mechanical ability. Preferably a match where somebody like DevM or Luvnest is present on opposing teams? I've noticed the top 1% are FAR better than the top 3%.

What does being a 4 man squad got to do with the Ost mortar being ridiculously OP? The regular Soviet mortar has a 6 man squad and is basically gargabe at everything but countering the Ost mortar.

The match-up was VonIvan/Barton vs. DevM/HelpingHans. It probably wont get much better than that. And still 3 mortar strat worked extremly well, in fact axis won every single game of this showmatch (best of 3).

You think a competent player isn't going to notice your lack of units present? Or send in an engineer squad as usual to check for mines before a push, uncovering your units? And even if it works once, the odds of you getting THAT much success out of an ambush ability is slim to none, all the stars would have to align for you and your opponent would have to be an idiot.

Further, two things. Proposing somebody blobs infantry to try to counter a discrepancy in the strength of their units should ONLY have any use when applied to Soviets, as they are the only army that should be forced to play this way. Blobbing units is literally promoting a lack of micro abilities, I have had countless MG42's get run down by an infantry blob because he simply right clicked every unit onto my MG and the MG user in the squad died before getting to suppress the blob (to which the only counter is to have multiple MG's, but that is very easily countered by mortars, vehicles, and smoke grenades). Grenadier blobs do well for the first few shots, but once they start getting shot back at, their models VERY quickly drop, and so does their damage.

Nothing is stopping your opponent from getting snipers two units in either. They can get basic infantry to screen for those snipers to stop you from taking them down. They can put down mines as well, they can tech up as well. This is 2v2 and this is soviets we're talking about. They are not Wehrmacht, who have to battle phase up AND build a building, they are not OKW, who have to call in a truck and then build that truck into a building. And while you might be getting your cap on, he's bleeding you for manpower every step of the way, which is a resource you NEED to tech up, and if he's playing correctly, he's not losing all that much manpower (the only thing preventative in any way to Soviet teching is manpower costs, as they are a manpower heavy faction).

Cloaked MG and infantry makes sniper play extremly hard because of two reasons. You cant shoot at an enemy you cant see. And two it makes it hard to keep your snipers alive because walking into a cloaked MG can mean death to your sniper. So can a well placed rifle grenade from a cloaked Grenadier/Jäger squad.

Everything else you said is just Axis tears....

Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. Sure you can use Conscripts to reveal the enemy but you are going to bleed manpower by doing that which makes sniper play uneffective.

Cloaked MG and infantry makes sniper play extremly hard because of two reasons. You cant shoot at an enemy you cant see. And two it makes it hard to keep your snipers alive because walking into a cloaked MG can mean death to your sniper. So can a well placed rifle grenade from a cloaked Grenadier/Jäger squad.

Everything else you said is just Axis tears....

Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. Sure you can use Conscripts to reveal the enemy but you are going to bleed manpower by doing that which makes sniper play uneffective.

Blobbing is for scrubs, that's not axis tears, that's tears from seeing an RTS series I've enjoyed degrade en masse, there have always been blobbers, but they've never been more prevalent.

If conscripts are your only units bleeding, I'd consider that incredible and tell you to enjoy your win.

Peaple forget the double tap(incindary shot) from ost sniper can finish off snipers quite easily becouse of superior camo. The Problem is getting to vet 1 though espacially later in the game

Peaple forget the double tap(incindary shot) from ost sniper can finish off snipers quite easily becouse of superior camo. The Problem is getting to vet 1 though espacially later in the game

"Maybe you can try to get him with the snipe into incendiary round to wipe the two, but if your opponent is incompetent enough to let that happen, then this post doesn't apply to you."

It was one of the first counters I proposed, but it is still flawed, because the second you see a model drop or your sniper start to lose HP, there's no reason to not quickly click over and retreat.

Peaple forget the double tap(incindary shot) from ost sniper can finish off snipers quite easily becouse of superior camo. The Problem is getting to vet 1 though espacially later in the game

This was patched in DBP. It now takes the correct animation time to take the second shot, which is enough time for a counterplay from the soviet player, which includes just sniping the ostheer sniper.

This was patched in DBP. It now takes the correct animation time to take the second shot, which is enough time for a counterplay from the soviet player, which includes just sniping the ostheer sniper.

My man.

A lot of it has to do with what the non-sniper player is doing. If you can draw that player out of position you'll likely be able to bully the snipers.

Double sniper teams usually entail two players pushing one side. Use that to your advantage and maneuver/flank with your ally. All failing one or both should be able to take the rest of the map.

If the other player is going t2 soviet w/ conscripts or a UKF vickers into WASP bren your best bet really is a blob of G43 grens. Your strat is pretty much surviving long enough to tech to the midgame. Just remember you'll likely fighting a 2v1 in many cases, so don't expect am advantage.

That said, if you're up against soviet snipers with USF support I find it much easier to draw soviet snipers into over extending, whereas t2 soviet or UKF support tends to dig in and lock you down/out of fuel or vps.

Aye. I normally can't put all that faith in my ally that early so I always intend to win my side and then fight with my teammate. I prefer to see 2v2 as a 1v1 that then introduces two other people who were 1v1'ing and then becomes a 2v2. I suppose it's flawed, but I've always preferred anything that exemplifies individual ability rather than team wide strength. The person I play with the most and I refer to it as double d***king when both players are attacking one instead of fighting their respective side.

Cloaked g43 and MG42s is a good idea. But you can also try ostruppen, as this slows the bleed with larger, cheaper squads. Then mortar spam.

Cloaked g43 and MG42s is a good idea. But you can also try ostruppen, as this slows the bleed with larger, cheaper squads. Then mortar spam.

I imagine that the problems presented in the original post has been largely resolved now that the soviet sniper is a one man unit

SBP came out --> only 1 model sniper now.

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