About Jacksons

yea 50 range at gun rak, so the counter to elefant and jagstiger was always there at gun creeps revert the nerf boys master katitof has spoken

You can use the invis to get into range

yea 50 range at gun rak, so the counter to elefant and jagstiger was always there at gun creeps revert the nerf boys master katitof has spoken

If only rak had a way to close on its targets without being seen.

If you want, please watch this replay cast to see the current OPness power of the Jacksons.
They completely invalidate the supposed "axis tank superiority" in the game. This is happening in every single game since the last patch. Axis cannot kill a single Jackson. They navigate the field as an unstoppable unit.
Plus, the P47.... And as if this were not enough the USF player is constantly popcaping (decrewing to build more Jacksons) and having 117 popcap (this kind of tricky things are, IMO, disgusting).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4RhA9XKxWk

the supposed "axis tank superiority"

In case you were on a trip around the world for last 2 years, axis late game dominance is a myth.
All the early game buffs axis got and many allied early game nerfs have costed you the late game power, so all factions are more on equal footing at all game stages.

Also, without even clicking the link, its 4v4, isn't it?

If only rak had a way to close on its targets without being seen.

if only said cloak had the movement speed, mans and detection to pass trough all the inf screening said tank

Also, without even clicking the link, its 4v4, isn't it?

well did u click the video ?

well did u click the video ?

I did.

3 TDs, 2 tanks, ATG, AT infantry and P-47 against lone KT "supported" by 2 infantry squads.

What exactly was the problem there?

There would be a major balance problem if that KT was able to do anything.

I did.

3 TDs, 2 tanks, ATG, AT infantry and P-47 against lone KT "supported" by 2 infantry squads.

What exactly was the problem there?

There would be a major balance problem if that KT was able to do anything.

yes so the fucking myth "axis armor opieopei" can be removed, now on the topic why would nerfing the range to 50/55 be too much ?

You can use the invis to get into range

Yeah to shoot once and then provide the allies with a free rak.

And using invs to get into range it just giving a cripple a crutch. Or in other words, giving it an ability (positive) to counteract its negatives, still leaves it worse off in comparison with other AT guns

But that model didn't work. Same as OKW been an aggressive truck emplacement faction in order to get resources or been resource starved.
M10 should had been non doctrinal, if that is your view on USF TD playstyle, and Jackson been a late late game unlock (maybe after all tiers are researched).

That model never applied to jackson, which always was ranged one, but it was exploited already by old M10 and proved to fail(anyone remember the famous vid, where 3x M10 engage KT, 2 of them get on KT rear and all of them die? yeah, that was a call for USF TD changes).

the model worked, on the Puma.

The jackson didn't work because it was not properly built. It had a large target size (24), lack good sight (regular 35), lack agility (30 rotation), and lastly smoke.

The top open turret on the US TD were suppose to provide its crew with better sight, and lower the height and weight of the vehicle, none of which were appropriately modeled in game.

or just nerf the range so it remains a chaser/runner TD unique to usf but pak/jagdp4 works as a counter as they out range it (rak still cries in the corner)

the okw vs current jackson boil down to use of jp4. They both cost around the same (jackson being more expensive)and occupy similar place in the tech tree. In a head on fight the jp4 have the advantage although jackson is more flexible.

it's really the Wehr having trouble since pak40 are just so flimsy and the stug get out range. I do think the stug should really get 60 range since the pak40 is just a huge liability at this point.

My entire point about 480 hp + puma kit is to give the jackon an Achilles's heel, that being the 480 hp. Remember that puma's 400 hp still effectively give it 3 shot-kill against the standard 160 damage. The puma is a high micro unit and player will mess up.

TD's are as much characterized by their Achilles's heel as much as their firepower. Su-85, stug, and jp4 are casemate. Firefly are slow with a even slower turret (the turret is slower than the one on the tiger). Those weakness make them vulnerable to medium tanks if caught out of position.

Jackson's weakness was HP, but that got removed in a misguided attempt to buff it. Now it doesn't really have a weakness exploitable by medium tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4RhA9XKxWk

First of all, what a great game. But if i may say, Axis throw it with the infantry splitpush, Pit going for a KT on an open map against double Jackson and wasting resources (either by getting key units sniped or throwing Artillery barrage on nothing).

If you want, please watch this replay cast to see the current OPness power of the Jacksons.

Mark vehicle + P47 + 3 T3485s + 2 Vet 2/3 Jacksons vs a half health KT and a vet3 JPIV.

1- Axis was winning early game (map pressure) and i feel they lift the foot from the gas with going for the long time investment on early Stuka + IR HT. USF built an AA-HT even thought they were cut off from fuel and that let them recover ground. While later Pit66 managed to snipe it with a 2x cloak raketen, it fulfill it's job of resetting the map.

2- Both Sully (OKW Stuka) and Theodosios (USF) were playing pretty well respectively, but i think Sully was really stretch out of micro trying to be the one going all around the map and doing the "flanking" while Pit hold the middle ground.
Ex: he was harassing the left vp, defending the right one and assisting the middle one. This cost him his vet 2 Obers (he sent them in the middle of the map with the vet 2/3 Falls against tanks and got sniped by the Scott), the PV (he sent it to deter the Sherman blocking his infantry pushes, but sent it against a RE with Zook and got flanked by 2 Jacksons) or vet 5 flamer Volk.
All those left pushes with several squads of Volks and Falls were always shut down by a Sherman with HE shells while the center was been pushed away cause the KT isn't a god unit which can solo infantry, Jacksons, AT gun n stolen raketens on it's own.

After losing both PV and 2nd Stuka in quick succession and seeing how the KT was playing, it was just asking to be soloed at some point.

3- 51:50 was perfectly done. You can see Sully Volks on the left been pushed away, same with Pits PF on the middle left. KT was at half health and the other tanks were spread out on the left (violet PIV) and right (red JPIV and PIV). They just all blitz right into the middle. 85s spearhead, eating the damage and absorbing both Schewerer fire. Sherman goes left sides and makes the AA HT retreat. After that they kill Pit's T3, cutting down his tech options.

4- Again, i'm surprised by the pressure Sully could put down after losing all that much by his partner.

snip
Show Spoiler

The Puma works, because it's not the end game AT for the faction and is an early-middle vehicle which can scale into the late game. But PUMA can't do shit, against MASS amount of vehicles.
Jackson needs a weakness, but i'm not sure if been 2 shot by heavy AT vehicles or boom rushed down is the one to be looking for. If USF had a meatshield (upgraded Sherman) to screen for them, it might work, but right now you are asking to give USF an M10 on steroids (mobile, turreted TD with smoke) which is not what USF needs for the late game.
Nerfing rotation, mobility, Rof or even cutting range by 5 would make it similar to the FF but from what it has been discussed you dislike the idea of having a similar unit although you are advocating for a pseudo Puma clone.

I'll prefer cutting down slightly different aspects while still retaining it's current role (55 range, less acceleration but same speed, slightly less RoF).

The Puma works, because it's not the end game AT for the faction and is an early-middle vehicle which can scale into the late game. But PUMA can't do shit, against MASS amount of vehicles.
Jackson needs a weakness, but i'm not sure if been 2 shot by heavy AT vehicles or boom rushed down is the one to be looking for. If USF had a meatshield (upgraded Sherman) to screen for them, it might work, but right now you are asking to give USF an M10 on steroids (mobile, turreted TD with smoke) which is not what USF needs for the late game.
Nerfing rotation, mobility, Rof or even cutting range by 5 would make it similar to the FF but from what it has been discussed you dislike the idea of having a similar unit although you are advocating for a pseudo Puma clone.

I'll prefer cutting down slightly different aspects while still retaining it's current role (55 range, less acceleration but same speed, slightly less RoF).

Puma's main weakness preventing it from scaling is its lack of penetration, something the 90mm has plenty of.

and Over stacking the Jackson with roles doesn't work. It is the one unit holding up the USF late game. It's just bad design to revolve the USF late game around one single unit.

Even with the jackson at its current strength, USF still get completely snubbed in team games. Trying to "balance" the 640 hp with stuff like reduced mobility, range, or ROF is just spinning in circle.


Trying to fix USF in team game by concentrating on one single unit is not going to work.

Each unit in the major's building need to be clear examined and having a clear idea of how each of them should perform in relationship to each other and how should the USF late game resolve.

Balancing a unit is as much about giving the Unit a weakness as well as giving them something they are good at, and then how the various unit's own strength and weakness interact with each other.