Some questions about weapon crews and recrews

Hi everyone, first time poster here,

So, as a fairly casual player of CoH, I have some questions about weapon crews that have bugged me since CoH 1:

1. Is it true that default weapon crews take 1.25 received accuracy?

2. Do they have lower health than normal infantry (I seem to remember in CoH 1 they had slightly lower health than even volks. Not sure.

3. Do the other crew members have lower damage than normal infantry. If the guys crewing my weapons by default have riles, or are recrewed with rifle wielding infantry, will they be more able to pick off infantry at longer range than default/ recrew smg infantry? Will smgs better fight off a close range rush? Obviously not against a whole squad, but say if 1 stg-44 soldier flanks an mg, will smg crew members be able to take him out? Or do they have terrible damage for no reason?

4. If I recrew a weapon with better infantry, do they keep their hp values and other stats such as received accuracy? Do they maintain their normal damage output? Do they suddenly receive 1.25 accuracy just for crewing the weapon?

Neither game has really made any of this clear, so I'm hoping players on here have some idea. The CoH series is great but without stat diving the whole thing really is just a guessing game.

Hi everyone, first time poster here,

So, as a fairly casual player of CoH, I have some questions about weapon crews that have bugged me since CoH 1:

1. Is it true that default weapon crews take 1.25 received accuracy?

Yes

2. Do they have lower health than normal infantry (I seem to remember in CoH 1 they had slightly lower health than even volks. Not sure.

All squad entities have 80 health (except snipers, those have 82 OST,UKF ~50 Sov), what matters is the recieved accuracy multiplier in infantry combat.

3. Do the other crew members have lower damage than normal infantry. If the guys crewing my weapons by default have riles, or are recrewed with rifle wielding infantry, will they be more able to pick off infantry at longer range than default/ recrew smg infantry? Will smgs better fight off a close range rush? Obviously not against a whole squad, but say if 1 stg-44 soldier flanks an mg, will smg crew members be able to take him out? Or do they have terrible damage for no reason?

Weapon crews deal almost no damage. On the other hand, if you crew them with any squad they will keep all statics of the new squad, even recieved accuracy and better DPS

4. If I recrew a weapon with better infantry, do they keep their hp values and other stats such as received accuracy? Do they maintain their normal damage output? Do they suddenly receive 1.25 accuracy just for crewing the weapon?

Neither game has really made any of this clear, so I'm hoping players on here have some idea. The CoH series is great but without stat diving the whole thing really is just a guessing game.

All statistics from the squad which crews the weapon team are carried now. So if you crew them with shocks, they have great short range DPS or if you crew them with Pathfinders, AT guns can stop for themselves and so on and so forth

All statistics from the squad which crews the weapon team are carried now. So if you crew them with shocks, they have great short range DPS or if you crew them with Pathfinders, AT guns can stop for themselves and so on and so forth

Also note, they keep their old reinforcement cost. If you crew a support weapon with elite infantry it will be very expensive to reinforce.

All statistics from the squad which crews the weapon team are carried now. So if you crew them with shocks, they have great short range DPS or if you crew them with Pathfinders, AT guns can stop for themselves and so on and so forth

Are you sure they are from a squad? Shouldn't it only be model based stats? Can squad based stats be carried on to team weapon?

Also as far as I know they behave like vet0 version of models.

Are you sure they are from a squad? Shouldn't it only be model based stats? Can squad based stats be carried on to team weapon?

Also as far as I know they behave like vet0 version of models.

A am not sure about vet works, but anything else should work like I said

Do we know if this is intentional? Seems odd to make recrews far better than default crews, therefore encouraging players to intentionally lose the original crew. It would also be interesting to know if recrewed weapons get their weapon crew veterancy or if they get the veterancy of the original squad.

Veterancy is based on squad, not entities.

It is unclear, and I don't recall atm, if the entities in a vet 3 squad recrewing a team weapon retain those bonuses. I think they do.

Vetgate was confusing, and it took months to even figure out (or convince anyone that the evidence was in fact, evidence) so the mechanisms with vet and individual entities is still hard to pin down.

As far as recrewed team weapons having advantages over the initial crew, that is intended. Initial crews are super cheap to reinforce comparatively. Pioneers, for instance, retain their superior sight range, which makes them ideal candidates for recrewing mgs and paks. This is because sight is set by the entity.

Also popcap. I think it was the B4 artillery piece that had all its pop cap loaded onto the crew, rather than the gun, so molotoving the crew and using cons saved you like 12 pop cap.

So it's always been intended. Losing the initial crew is a loss of manpower and vet, but is the most manageable loss. The real value is the weapon itself.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. While I'm here, I thought I'd ask what does the "armour" stat do on infantry? I notice on coh2stats.com it shows most have 1.0 but some have up to 4.0

What I'm really looking for is some info regarding how armour, received accuracy and damage interact in general. I'm also curious about armour penetration values for vehicles and how weapon and armour values work. Any suggestions on where I can look?

So I've been looking on CoHstats.com and it would appear that OKW weapon crews are just volks. They all use the volks version of the Kar 98 and have 1.0 target size with the exception for MGs who have 1.25 and AT guns who surprisingly have .85

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp

So it looks like as far as damage output goes they are equivalent to regular infantry.

Soviet crews on the other hand appear to be utterly appalling with almost no accuracy on their weapon. Ost crews aren't much better, using an inferior version of the pioneer MP40 with all of 2 damage.

The really bizarre ones are the US crews. They have worse accuracy than regular rifleman but appear to do 2x the amount of damage with their Garands.

Does anyone know how accurate this site actually is?

It is from "Patch version: 23 June 2015 "

So it is very, very outdated.

So I've been looking on CoHstats.com and it would appear that OKW weapon crews are just volks. They all use the volks version of the Kar 98 and have 1.0 target size with the exception for MGs who have 1.25 and AT guns who surprisingly have .85

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp

So it looks like as far as damage output goes they are equivalent to regular infantry.

Soviet crews on the other hand appear to be utterly appalling with almost no accuracy on their weapon. Ost crews aren't much better, using an inferior version of the pioneer MP40 with all of 2 damage.

The really bizarre ones are the US crews. They have worse accuracy than regular rifleman but appear to do 2x the amount of damage with their Garands.

Does anyone know how accurate this site actually is?

The crews for OKW weapon teams were given their proper weapons with DBP; the crew members' DPS is (correctly) much lower now. This is part of why the HMG34's damage was increased by 50% (that massive increase from 2 to 3...), to compensate for this fix.

For reference: http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=weapon_crew_kar_98k_rifle_mp

This site has recently been updated, so its actually up to date now on some things.

The armour on infantry works exactly like the one on vehicles. If your weapon has a pen value equal of higher to the armour value it will always do damage, otherwise the chance is equal to pen divided by armour value and decided by rng roll. Most small arms have the penetration value of 1, but some, for example MGs and AT rifles have more, so they have easier time fighting armoured troops.

So in comparison, the recived accurancy lowers the damage of weapons favouring the ones with over 100% accurancy (like snipers), while armour lowers the damage favouring weapons with high penetration (like mgs).

As for the recrew: yes it is intended and it is ment to allow you to decide what type of crew you want on your weapon, although there are some problems. For example okw crews were cheaper (like most crews) than volks, but had similar combat effectivness. The current problem is with maxim that has increased reinforcement cost, which means it costs just as much to reinforce the one recrewed by cons as the vanilla one. Obviously that means losing the last model instead of escaping can sometime prove beneficial. These are the things that are not intended and are the oversight of ballance designers.

It seems a shame to me that the designers want weapon crews to be total bollocks in combat. It makes no logical sense and isn't communicated to players in any way. For example, a Russian Vickers Mg is far better at its job when crewed by some random German pioneers than when it is crewed by soldiers specifically designed to use the weapon.

Maybe if they made the crew worse but the weapon itself perform better with the proper crew, that would make sense. Instead we are left with crews with around 10-30% accuracy for no reason.

I feel like this is why I'll always prefer the Men of War series. For all its faults, at least it seems to have fewer ridiculous inconsistencies and odd design decisions.

Weapon teams are not more effective with vanilla crew but they are by far more cost effective (apart from maxim and DShK), becouse they are 25% cheaper to reinforce. That actually makes a difference. It is also worth noting that losing squads in general is not something that happens often in serious games. In case of weapon teams the loss is mostly in veterancy, but there is also a net loss in models needed to reinforce and higher reinforcement costs.

As for man of war, it is simply a game for different audience. You cant compare apples with oranges.

Weapon teams are not more effective with vanilla crew but they are by far more cost effective (apart from maxim and DShK), becouse they are 25% cheaper to reinforce. That actually makes a difference. It is also worth noting that losing squads in general is not something that happens often in serious games. In case of weapon teams the loss is mostly in veterancy, but there is also a net loss in models needed to reinforce and higher reinforcement costs.

As for man of war, it is simply a game for different audience. You cant compare apples with oranges.

Oh I'm not meaning to say that Men of War should necessarily be compared with CoH. I was merely saying that MoW is more consistent and intuitive. CoH is full of bizarre rules like "MG crews have 1.25 received accuracy" which are never communicated to players. Hell, even the basic tooltips and unit descriptions are woefully out of date. How hard is it to have someone update them for each patch. I'm pretty sure a dedicated player would do this for free if asked.

Reinforcement cost is important, but why are the crews who use the same weapons as infantry utterly useless? I know the game is going for balance over realism, but having the game say a crew is trained to use an MG42 and then having them be the absolute worst infantry in the game at using an MG42 is somewhat baffling.

^ the absolute opacity of information regarding how things actually function is one of my biggest issues with this game.

A person with much more experience of the game who knows how much penetration vehicle A has compared to vehicle B is at an enormous advantage because even just one good engagement can massively alter how a game goes in CoH2. And even just knowing "my unit can kill his in a 1v1" is often enough to get that edge.

This is particularly frustrating since games can easily last 30+ minutes and into an hour (especially for team games).

Luckily people on these forums (and in few twitch streams) are willing to share some good information.

Hell, even the basic tooltips and unit descriptions are woefully out of date. How hard is it to have someone update them for each patch. I'm pretty sure a dedicated player would do this for free if asked.

There is a mod that changes all the text in the game to include some of the numerical information about stats. The mod is getting updates with every patch and does work in automatch. The most important feature is that is has real values for all veterancy descriptions.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/58241/numeral-veterancy-descriptions-english-localization-mod

Coming back to the weapon teams: I generally agree that there should be a reason for them to fight worse. For example ostheer weapon teams all use mp40s, which in general have bad stats in the game and works only on shortest ranges, so its understandable that they are not very good. Other weapon teams use rifles which is what couses problems when crew has more damage than the weapon itself, like in the case of old mg34, as it is supposed to be easily flankable. For ballance reasons many rifles have different versions depending on the squad that carries them. This includes also infantry, not only weapon teams like in example of kar98 (obers > grens > volks > ostruppen), mosin (guards > cons > crews) or even drop down weapons like lmgs or AT rifles.

- I demand this be made available in the regular game.
- I mean, seriously. I insist. I demand.

This is needed if we are to have a good influx of new blood in the game.
I'd like regular range rings that can we switched on and off, too.

Can you have this mod with something like the cheats command mod for quick comparison?
This does seem like something that should be part of the main game already.
Maybe the developers thought people would look at the numbers and percentages and get turned off? Since being a more accesible RTS is part of COH's image? That's the most logical reason I can think off as to why the stats are so ambiguous in this game.