Penal Battalions Balanced patch from Relic *Sarcasm

S

What people don't understand is how to apply first principles thinking and analysis.

On a per-unit basis, the game is granular.

That means that at any given moment, one unit is fighting one other unit, even if the engagement as a whole features several units.

You CANNOT jack up the cost of a unit and claim it's balanced if it's the kind of unit that requires two other units to defeat.

Again, in a game like Starcraft, maybe that's decent logic, where you literally attack-move blobs of your entire existing army together.

But in a tactical RTS like CoH2, where you should use units to cap, build structures, lay mines, flank, etc., units -- especially baseline infantry units -- must all be threatening to one another in different ways on a one-to-one basis.

This is, by the way, part of why the Western Fronts factions are, to this very day, power creeped compared to Eastern Front factions, with the exception of Penals, since they were the crutch given to Soviets to fight OKW effectively -- except Ostheer wasn't given such a crutch.

Just so it's clear I'm bot biased: before DBP, Volks raped Conscripts without Conscripts having ANY chance, because Volks are from WFA, despite how low Volks' damage is compared to USF and UKF infantry. Don't know if that's changed since DBP, and I don't exactly have much chance to find out, since all any Soviets ever use are Penals.

I keep saying this, and I'll repeat it: the measure of unit balance is THREAT, not cost.

Every single Ostheer baseline squad screams in terror and runs at sight of Penals, USF Riflemen, and UKF Infantry Sections, while Allied squads can and do weather a ton of punishment from Axis forces (OKW included, since Volks don't deal damage), which is really what decides the outcome of all engagements except if the Axis player manages to pull off the most hardcore flank possible or instawipe a squad with a nade or something.

Axis baseline infantry doesn't pose a THREAT to any Allied units, ever. As long as this remains the case, and as long as people keep arguing in terms of cost and other math, instead of evident, observable performance, nothing's going to be properly balanced.

Storm Elite it is refreshing to see someone that gets this game and understands the problem Penal represents.

To the guy also stating I am losing valuable time to cap map by building penal building and then building 3 penals clearly has not tried it himself. I proved this live on stream talking to the chat, it really is no time wasted and w.e the enemy capped I can uncap and take back with zero loss in time or effort, what use is capping when you will lose initial engagement and therefor all the "capping" you just did. Also I question his knowledge of this strat since he is grossly overestimating the time loss not going conscipts instead of penals. The enemy has never capped more then 1 or 2 points near his base before my first batch of penals is out, by then the 2nd follows, eng is capping and when I beat the enemy back thatz it.

The game is not balanced at all current state, the satches too are EXTREMELY powerful against buildings and any mg inside of it. I can clear a house mg no problem with 2 penals, hell just 1. At best the german can hold fuel for 10 seconds while i get the 40 munitions, i cap around him, without mg he cannot fight me since his inf will lose every engagement 1v1, even 1v2 but by then i should have 3 penals out on the field, demolishing him.

Anyway coming at the mg from 2 different angles is enough, 3? is gg, either he leaves the house or this happens



https://clips.twitch.tv/TardyCogentBananaBigBrother


The poor osteer infantry could do nothing against penals, notice I won easily with a 4 man squad against 2 volks while the other 2 flank mg, came in and just forced the gg. No coming back from that



Not a good time to be german

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I don't like to pull playercard, but you're ranked 1416 for 2v2 soviets. Your wins are just noob stomping on bad players, not representative of actual balance.

I don't like to pull playercard, but you're ranked 1416 for 2v2 soviets. Your wins are just noob stomping on bad players, not representative of actual balance.

dude then play against me lol

Seriously put your money where your mouth is

so you can come back here and cry about something else


im not a noob, i just never play soviets and the matchmaking in this game is attrocious. You are so toxic for even bringing that up since I was getting paired against 700+ horus full prestige players and still had wins

gtfo out

Seriously hmu and lets live stream it

dude then play against me lol

Seriously put your money where your mouth is

so you can come back here and cry about something else


im not a noob, i just never play soviets and the matchmaking in this game is attrocious. You are so toxic for even bringing that up since I was getting paired against 700+ horus full prestige players and still had wins

gtfo out

Seriously hmu and lets live stream it

Ok, sent. Remind me tomorrow night.

Playtime is not a good measure of skill. Go to the last page on the leaderboards, plenty of 1000+ hr players with literally the lowest rank.

Ok, sent. Remind me tomorrow night.

accepted, better be humble and show respect from hence on.

I will definetely remind you

im only looking to do 2v2 so we either que up same time, find others to fill in shoes
or create a custom match n wait for randoms to join in

i dont mind quein up same time until we are paired up to make it "fair", luckily we get competent teammates

I dont do 1v1

im not a noob, i just never play soviets and the matchmaking in this game is attrocious. You are so toxic for even bringing that up since I was getting paired against 700+ horus full prestige players and still had wins

gtfo out

So what part of that passage is supposed to command our respect?

btw, gtfo out = get the fuck out out

So what part of that passage is supposed to command our respect?

im not commanding respect, i just dont appreciate being called noob when I know I am not.

even if my scorecard is low the matchmaking doesnt stop that from pinning up against vet german players, I checked their scorecards after every win.

its just a shit jab that I guess we will prove tomorrow night

dude then play against me lol

This means a 1v1
If you play a 2v2 tobis team mate can carry him which is unfair

DUDE, just saying, penals used to be OP, they aren't..and your cover play was a bit flawed.

This means a 1v1
If you play a 2v2 tobis team mate can carry him which is unfair

Yeah. Come on Drones. Lets do a 1v1 with Tobis and you. It will be so fun to watch how your Penals and Guards beat Tobis with ease. Lets do it. Mad respect for you by the way.

im not commanding respect, i just dont appreciate being called noob when I know I am not.

even if my scorecard is low the matchmaking doesnt stop that from pinning up against vet german players, I checked their scorecards after every win.

its just a shit jab that I guess we will prove tomorrow night

Ok lets take a look at your playercard: 5 out of 7 games lost as Soviets. Wins against: LVL 5 OKW, LVL 7 Ost and LVL 6 premade team. Congratulations. You beat the best of the very best. Veteran elite players. So much respect.

I guess you might be the most delusional guy on COH2.org right now. Congratulations.

What about making penals SVTs a muni upgrade after t3 is built instead of being stock? Let them have bolts and return the flamer upgrade (SVT, flamer and PTRS are all exclusive. Maybe even tie a grenade type to each upgrade like the sticky satchel is. SVT could be a regular nade, flamer demo package could be the normal satchel) adjust manpower cost as needed, waiting for the killer DPS and locking it behind munitions isnt unreasonable i dont think, especially for a faction with nothing else to spend it on (especially not since demos were removed)

im not commanding respect, i just dont appreciate being called noob when I know I am not.

even if my scorecard is low the matchmaking doesnt stop that from pinning up against vet german players, I checked their scorecards after every win.

its just a shit jab that I guess we will prove tomorrow night

Me and Hooligan are pretty evenly matched players, we have played vs each other a lot. I would be willing to step in as yours or Tobis' team mate to facilitate your preference for a 2v2, I am sure Hooligan would be willing to help as well. We can even use a coin flip to decide which of us you get.

If not, then its 1v1 time.

Me and Hooligan are pretty evenly matched players, we have played vs each other a lot. I would be willing to step in as yours or Tobis' team mate to facilitate your preference for a 2v2, I am sure Hooligan would be willing to help as well. We can even use a coin flip to decide which of us you get.

If not, then its 1v1 time.

that sounds fair, we need 2 additional players to fill our spots for 2v2, i'll take whoever wants to volunteer and we can stream it for the hype

Ok lets take a look at your playercard: 5 out of 7 games lost as Soviets. Wins against: LVL 5 OKW, LVL 7 Ost and LVL 6 premade team. Congratulations. You beat the best of the very best. Veteran elite players. So much respect.

I guess you might be the most delusional guy on COH2.org right now. Congratulations.

i did not lose 5 out of 7 and i played way more then 7, I streamed for 8 hours

should i post the screenshot of you posting on my stream crying that Penal charge was OP
good thing everything stays recorded


now you are here lying again

edit: nvm that was someone else

This means a 1v1
If you play a 2v2 tobis team mate can carry him which is unfair

i dont do 1v1 in this game, it would be unfair for me

1v1 is a different build order and resource timer then 2v2
I would rather play in something I am already comfortable in

Me and Hooligan are pretty evenly matched players, we have played vs each other a lot. I would be willing to step in as yours or Tobis' team mate to facilitate your preference for a 2v2, I am sure Hooligan would be willing to help as well. We can even use a coin flip to decide which of us you get.

If not, then its 1v1 time.

Sure, can i be on drones side? I want to rek Tobis' pio spam
xD

edit: I could stream it as well, would be a nice way to test if my coh2 lags finally got fixed in some way :/

If he has problems with 1v1 maps, you can play on map which is both 1v1 and 2v2 for example

You'd easily play any 2on2 maps as 1on1 - just use the same tactics! It's not that different.