[DBP] Mechanized Doctrine feedback thread

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning balance here. I'm under no delusions that I somehow know better than a team of experienced modders with access to the numbers and a wealth of playtesting data. I'm not sure I could make any meaningful contribution to a balance discussion.

What I'm talking about here is design. Again, I'm confident you know better than me here (and imo better than Relic on the Stuart/AAHT swap). I ask questions because I want to understand.

Back to Assault Engineers:

If the problem is "how do we bundle a halftrack and Assault Engineers together in a call-in without making it prohibitively expensive" the current solution is excellent.

Nevertheless it feels a little awkward: you've got to faff around rearranging vehicle crews to get the Assault Engineers out. I don't think it's a matter of dispute that having a normal vehicle crew in the halftrack is more straightforward.

Mechanized has a lot of doctrinal abilities in it: the new WC51 and Sherman Modifications alone have enough abilities to make a commander (old WC51, Mark Target, 75mm Sherman Bulldozer, 155mm Artillery, M4C 76mm Sherman). Unless having the Assault Engineers is important might it not be a net benefit not to have them? You cut down on the amount of doctrinal stuff in a commander that presently has a fair bit more than its counterparts and you make a small QoL improvement to the M3 Halftrack.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning balance here. I'm under no delusions that I somehow know better than a team of experienced modders with access to the numbers and a wealth of playtesting data. I'm not sure I could make any meaningful contribution to a balance discussion.

What I'm talking about here is design. Again, I'm confident you know better than me here (and imo better than Relic on the Stuart/AAHT swap). I ask questions because I want to understand.

Back to Assault Engineers:

If the problem is "how do we bundle a halftrack and Assault Engineers together in a call-in without making it prohibitively expensive" the current solution is excellent.

Nevertheless it feels a little awkward: you've got to faff around rearranging vehicle crews to get the Assault Engineers out. I don't think it's a matter of dispute that having a normal vehicle crew in the halftrack is more straightforward.

Mechanized has a lot of doctrinal abilities in it: the new WC51 and Sherman Modifications alone have enough abilities to make a commander (old WC51, Mark Target, 75mm Sherman Bulldozer, 155mm Artillery, M4C 76mm Sherman). Unless having the Assault Engineers is important might it not be a net benefit not to have them? You cut down on the amount of doctrinal stuff in a commander that presently has a fair bit more than its counterparts and you make a small QoL improvement to the M3 Halftrack.

Given that Rear Echelons get mines and that Demo charges are no longer stupidly OP, Assault Engineer utility feels significantly diminished. However, given that the bundle solution seems to work, it seems like an OK workaround to maintain the original flavour of the ability, without introducing something stupidly OP (e.g., yet another unique doctrinal USF infantry squad).

Keeping Assault Engineers in the call-in is also a nice excuse to fix that waste of a unit for other doctrines too.

Do note, however, that the commander has lost access to easy-to-use off-maps. WC-51 dodge requires a dive to call in the artillery at the desired location.

Keeping Assault Engineers in the call-in is also a nice excuse to fix that waste of a unit for other doctrines too.

Geez, you have got such a vendetta against assault engineers... they're excellent units whose biggest fault is being doctrinal and not replacing REs.

They can be timed so that an assault engineer and riflemen are hitting the front by the time sturm pios and a kubel are on the front.

Since the theme of all this is teamgames, assault engies routinely give me, to speak for myself, the edge on maps where you have to rush key garrisons. Which is, like, every teamgame map that isn't steppes.

I don't feel like you've properly defined why you feel so strongly that they're such a waste of a unit.

They do have less use with nerfed demos and RE mines, but still. Flame. Throwers.

Given that Rear Echelons get mines and that Demo charges are no longer stupidly OP, Assault Engineer utility feels significantly diminished.

Was making them a competent short range combat squad like Sturmpioneers ever considered?

Keeping Assault Engineers in the call-in is also a nice excuse to fix that waste of a unit for other doctrines too.

Were you to remove them now would Relic make you roll back the Assault Engineer changes for Armor Company?

Do note, however, that the commander has lost access to easy-to-use off-maps. WC-51 dodge requires a dive to call in the artillery at the desired location.

Fair point.

Upon further thought i think they should get rid of the m3 altogether and have cavalry rifles instead with a possible thompson non op version upgrade. Heres why too much of the doct cost fuel, you really cant make the dodge mortar ht and the m3 or your mostly going to be screwed by medium rushes or any tanky vehicles like luchs or puma. Its a lot of fuel for zero at and set you too far behind for the shiny things sherman with upgrade and 76 sherman imo. Idk i think the mp only cavalry rifle call ins just makes sense and flows well with the doct. And like others said id just rather hve an ambulance usf have no other way to heal if your relying on m3 ht instead, it dosent heal right? Now that i think about it im not sure if i looked at it that closely when i was playing around with it either way still think too much fuel cost items and dosent conjunction well

And like others said id just rather hve an ambulance usf have no other way to heal if your relying on m3 ht instead, it dosent heal right?

Yes it does.

It's 30MU for a triple-medpak drop (like the Sturmpioneer version). Medpaks heal your units much faster than ambulances do (2.5 times faster iirc?), and you don't have to be hugging your M3 the whole time either. Just get your squad up to full, grab a medkit and get out of there.

Yes it does.

It's 30MU for a triple-medpak drop (like the Sturmpioneer version). Medpaks heal your units much faster than ambulances do (2.5 times faster iirc?), and you don't have to be hugging your M3 the whole time either. Just get your squad up to full, grab a medkit and get out of there.

How durable is it compared to the other faction halftracks? The first post of this thread says high durability - is that compared to the Ambulance or compared to the other halftracks?

How durable is it compared to the other faction halftracks? The first post of this thread says high durability - is that compared to the Ambulance or compared to the other halftracks?

It's comparable to Soviet M5. IIRC correctly that one of the beefiest halftracks in the game. The M3 now also has a kickass MG which it can now use while reinforcing your troops.

It's comparable to Soviet M5. IIRC correctly that one of the beefiest halftracks in the game. The M3 now also has a kickass MG which it can now use while reinforcing your troops.

How does that MG compare to the MGs mounted on other USF vehicles?

It's the Sherman's pintle. 50, arguably the strongest vehicle mg in the game.

Do the mounted 50.cals have the same stats wherever they're mounted then? I thought they varied in stats from unit to unit despite being thematically the same weapon like slot weapons do.

Do note, however, that the commander has lost access to easy-to-use off-maps. WC-51 dodge requires a dive to call in the artillery at the desired location.

Fair point.

Do note that you can now use it before CP8 which is a fair compensation for it. I don't think Mr.Smith thought who OP it could be on 4vs4 with so much resources for an USF player to spam it so early in the game. Assuming the player doesn't upgrade BARs...

Do the mounted 50.cals have the same stats wherever they're mounted then? I thought they varied in stats from unit to unit despite being thematically the same weapon like slot weapons do.

They do vary from unit to unit but presumably the variant on the M3 has the same stats as the Sherman pintle MG.