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russian armor

Something is wrong with IS-2

1 Dec 2017, 17:45 PM
#21
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2017, 21:57 PMBizrock


Thanks for saying that it makes no sense.
So how far we can go about sense to justify Balance?
I mean, this game isn't starcraft, we can't just create stats and units. They existed and follow some kind of "real world" physics, that's why a 122mm shell can't do the same damage as a 76mm.
Is it better to let IS-2 be equal to all other heavy tanks (tiger,pershing) or be a unique tank that can enter into an asymmetrical balance.
Why is bad that IS-2 have the same "role" as King tiger?

Because soviet players can spam caches to get it to begin with.

It also factually cost much less, and doesn't share several weaknesses king tiger has, like mobility.
1 Dec 2017, 19:09 PM
#22
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

the problem is: a KT need all 3 trucks + 275fuel ...the IS2 need no tech. You can callin when u have the CPs for a lower price...

thats a huge difference


There's also a huge difference in being able to call them in no matter what commander you pick...
1 Dec 2017, 22:25 PM
#23
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



There's also a huge difference in being able to call them in no matter what commander you pick...


Irrelevant, not getting heavy doctrines doesn't mean you are not getting good late game vehicles, especially as soviets.

Don't get me wrong, i'm really happy to give soviets non doc heavy as powerful as king tiger, but:
1) soviets can't build caches anymore
2) soviets heavy is2 cost increased to 280
3) soviets have to build tier 1-2-3-4 in order to get it, none of those excluded.p
2 Dec 2017, 01:04 AM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



It has the HIGHEST penetration of all heavies, higher than tiger and king tiger, and the exact same accuracy of tiger and king tiger.


Just in case: accuracy is only relevant against vehicles. You have to still account for scatter shots (how far away you will miss from your target). When most people complain about drunk IS2 crew aiming, it's because the IS2 tends to overshoot (way higher scatter than the other 2 tanks) it's targets. IIRC, i think it was Cruzz who said you should basically go towards the IS2 and never have a wall behind you (for infantry). In that way you would avoid getting hit by the AoE.
You should be more afraid of the IS2 gunner than the RNG gun from the IS2.

@OP:
About "low" 160 damage: in the past, we had it do 240dmg. It didn't work. The gun used to have a 20% chance of vehicle crew shock/stun (same with Tiger), REALLY slow ROF and like 20% dmg deflection. It was still bad.

About the current situation with IS2 in comparison to Tiger: for one, there's only 2 doctrines with them, none of them been meta. Compared that to the 4 Tiger (+1 been the TA), one of them been really meta (Lighting) and the other ones having defining roles (resource manipulation + spin strafe; anti support weapons/simcity; Stug-E into Tiger).
Shock Rifle frontline has drop from the meta when the KV8 was nerfed and the Shocks been no longer relevant to the current gameplay. Flame barrage is balanced therefore not strong enough to bring on, same as the IS2.
Armored Assault: first ability which is only relevant for 1v1 due to radio chat clutter on teamgames and still not useful for like 70% of the playerbase. Overlapping of T34-85s vs IS2, repair vehicle been nice but not something you would choose a commander for, same as the IL2 loiter.

Buffing the IS2:
Ez way: the only thing i'll modify is to slightly decrease the scatter (still been higher than both Tiger).
More elaborate: aura affecting infantry which increase acc/RA by +10%/-10% ? Maybe that replaces the vet1 ability. Maybe a toggle mode on which slows down the speed of the vehicle in order to apply the aura?

ShockRifle: whenever either Shocks or KV8 receive some love, it would see play again.
Armored assault: replace radio intercept with either a reworked vehicle detection or something similar as to what British Hammer specialisations receive (the tracking on hit thing). T34-85 replaced with the soviet version of breakthrough (the one on Encirclement doctrine. Cost fuel (?) and lets vehicle be a little faster and decap points). IS2 on this commander could be slightly different than the one on Shockrifle. The aura vet 1 based ability could affect vehicles (accuracy/rof) instead of infantry.
2 Dec 2017, 08:47 AM
#25
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Just in case: accuracy is only relevant against vehicles. You have to still account for scatter shots (how far away you will miss from your target). When most people complain about drunk IS2 crew aiming, it's because the IS2 tends to overshoot (way higher scatter than the other 2 tanks) it's targets. IIRC, i think it was Cruzz who said you should basically go towards the IS2 and never have a wall behind you (for infantry). In that way you would avoid getting hit by the AoE.
You should be more afraid of the IS2 gunner than the RNG gun from the IS2.

@OP:
About "low" 160 damage: in the past, we had it do 240dmg. It didn't work. The gun used to have a 20% chance of vehicle crew shock/stun (same with Tiger), REALLY slow ROF and like 20% dmg deflection. It was still bad.

About the current situation with IS2 in comparison to Tiger: for one, there's only 2 doctrines with them, none of them been meta. Compared that to the 4 Tiger (+1 been the TA), one of them been really meta (Lighting) and the other ones having defining roles (resource manipulation + spin strafe; anti support weapons/simcity; Stug-E into Tiger).
Shock Rifle frontline has drop from the meta when the KV8 was nerfed and the Shocks been no longer relevant to the current gameplay. Flame barrage is balanced therefore not strong enough to bring on, same as the IS2.
Armored Assault: first ability which is only relevant for 1v1 due to radio chat clutter on teamgames and still not useful for like 70% of the playerbase. Overlapping of T34-85s vs IS2, repair vehicle been nice but not something you would choose a commander for, same as the IL2 loiter.

Buffing the IS2:
Ez way: the only thing i'll modify is to slightly decrease the scatter (still been higher than both Tiger).
More elaborate: aura affecting infantry which increase acc/RA by +10%/-10% ? Maybe that replaces the vet1 ability. Maybe a toggle mode on which slows down the speed of the vehicle in order to apply the aura?

ShockRifle: whenever either Shocks or KV8 receive some love, it would see play again.
Armored assault: replace radio intercept with either a reworked vehicle detection or something similar as to what British Hammer specialisations receive (the tracking on hit thing). T34-85 replaced with the soviet version of breakthrough (the one on Encirclement doctrine. Cost fuel (?) and lets vehicle be a little faster and decap points). IS2 on this commander could be slightly different than the one on Shockrifle. The aura vet 1 based ability could affect vehicles (accuracy/rof) instead of infantry.


Just pointing out tht if is2 has issues, those aren't penetration or accuracy.

The problem is that is 2 has same armor as king tiger but good mobility and lower price, any buff will make it op.
What about changing his (useless) ability to a special shell that increase damage for 2-3 shots like heat ?
2 Dec 2017, 13:43 PM
#26
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
IS2 fight good with KT.
2 Dec 2017, 17:12 PM
#27
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

On paper, this is the best tank, in the game it's the worst tank. IS-2 of Schrödinger. His gun is so inaccurate that DShK does more kills than a cannon.
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