Something is wrong with IS-2
30 Nov 2017, 06:47 AM
#1
Posts: 206
Why the IS-2 122 mm gun do the same damage (160) as the T-34 76mm gun?
30 Nov 2017, 07:19 AM
#2
Posts: 1740
One word, 7 letters: Balance.
Sure, it makes no sense in terms of realism and also the IS-2 is probably not in its best spot right now BUT buffing the main cannon damage doesn't make a lot of sense imo.
The IS-2 is tanky as a bull with its insane armor. What it fails to do consistently is hitting stuff.
I remember the time (pre WFA) when the IS-2 was today's King Tiger (maybe a bit weaker), this was not nice and I don't think making it like this again is a good idea.
But buff its accuracy and you got me all in.
Sure, it makes no sense in terms of realism and also the IS-2 is probably not in its best spot right now BUT buffing the main cannon damage doesn't make a lot of sense imo.
The IS-2 is tanky as a bull with its insane armor. What it fails to do consistently is hitting stuff.
I remember the time (pre WFA) when the IS-2 was today's King Tiger (maybe a bit weaker), this was not nice and I don't think making it like this again is a good idea.
But buff its accuracy and you got me all in.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
30 Nov 2017, 07:36 AM
#3
Posts: 2243
the IS-2 doc with the flamer KV and flamer callins is OP as shit vs axis.
Why?
it denys every form of teamweapons (AT gun) cause of the flamer tank + callins and you get the IS2 without tech anythink.
so you dont need tech and call in very good verhicles....which are supportet bei the flames callin...
you must only stay into the 20min mark and win..
Why?
it denys every form of teamweapons (AT gun) cause of the flamer tank + callins and you get the IS2 without tech anythink.
so you dont need tech and call in very good verhicles....which are supportet bei the flames callin...
you must only stay into the 20min mark and win..
30 Nov 2017, 11:51 AM
#4
Posts: 1740
the IS-2 doc with the flamer KV and flamer callins is OP as shit vs axis.
Why?
it denys every form of teamweapons (AT gun) cause of the flamer tank + callins and you get the IS2 without tech anythink.
so you dont need tech and call in very good verhicles....which are supportet bei the flames callin...
you must only stay into the 20min mark and win..
If you don't tech to T3, how will you counter tanks?
Without a Su76 or T70 even Ostheer will screw you with Flamer HTs or 222s (assuming that the Ost player is not an idiot and knows how to properly kite).
Going T1 as Sov = AI, but no AT, except for Guards which are NOT in a doctrine with KV-8 and IS-2. Going PTRS as Penals means you lose AI which means you cannot fight against MGs and Grens.
Going T2 as Sov = AT, but no AI. Maxim sucks, Mortar sucks, AT Gun is nice but cannot do anything against inf. Cons suck and die like flies.
Stalling as Sov is IMO hard. The only 'good' solution would be going T1 AND T2 but then you still have nothing to play aggressive because you cannot afford a T70.
The KV-8, while annoying, is useless against any kind of tanks and while you get an KV-8 your IS-2 will be delayed even longer.
If you go IS-2 without KV-8 you will get fucked by PaKs because IS-2, as I mentioned before, has good armor but shoots like a drunk Hobo.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
30 Nov 2017, 12:18 PM
#5
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
the IS-2 doc with the flamer KV and flamer callins is OP as shit vs axis.
Why?
it denys every form of teamweapons (AT gun) cause of the flamer tank + callins and you get the IS2 without tech anythink.
so you dont need tech and call in very good verhicles....which are supportet bei the flames callin...
you must only stay into the 20min mark and win..
what?
30 Nov 2017, 13:41 PM
#6
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
the IS-2 doc with the flamer KV and flamer callins is OP as shit vs axis.
Why?
it denys every form of teamweapons (AT gun) cause of the flamer tank + callins and you get the IS2 without tech anythink.
so you dont need tech and call in very good verhicles....which are supportet bei the flames callin...
you must only stay into the 20min mark and win..
Shocks will bleed and KVs will give infantry a warm bath. The IS 2 has mad scatter and the flame artillery is more area denial than to force a retreat. I'm glad the Shock Rifle meta is less used nowadays, it was very stale.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
30 Nov 2017, 21:57 PM
#7
Posts: 206
One word, 7 letters: Balance.
Sure, it makes no sense in terms of realism and also the IS-2 is probably not in its best spot right now BUT buffing the main cannon damage doesn't make a lot of sense imo.
The IS-2 is tanky as a bull with its insane armor. What it fails to do consistently is hitting stuff.
I remember the time (pre WFA) when the IS-2 was today's King Tiger (maybe a bit weaker), this was not nice and I don't think making it like this again is a good idea.
But buff its accuracy and you got me all in.
Thanks for saying that it makes no sense.
So how far we can go about sense to justify Balance?
I mean, this game isn't starcraft, we can't just create stats and units. They existed and follow some kind of "real world" physics, that's why a 122mm shell can't do the same damage as a 76mm.
Is it better to let IS-2 be equal to all other heavy tanks (tiger,pershing) or be a unique tank that can enter into an asymmetrical balance.
Why is bad that IS-2 have the same "role" as King tiger?
30 Nov 2017, 22:38 PM
#8
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
The IS-2 is the second worst heavy call-in in the game after the ISU-152 in my book. After the DB patch, it is likely going to be the worst heavy call-in. It is unreliable, missing point blank shots.
I also don't get why we don't tie all heavy call-ins to tech and then finally either tone down the KT or just buff the tiger and is2 to KT levels
I also don't get why we don't tie all heavy call-ins to tech and then finally either tone down the KT or just buff the tiger and is2 to KT levels
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
30 Nov 2017, 22:53 PM
#9
Posts: 393
The IS-2 is the second worst heavy call-in in the game after the ISU-152 in my book. After the DB patch, it is likely going to be the worst heavy call-in. It is unreliable, missing point blank shots.
I also don't get why we don't tie all heavy call-ins to tech and then finally either tone down the KT or just buff the tiger and is2 to KT levels
I would go with the second option. It really makes no sense that those bigger guns are just not living up to expectations. I remember that Mr.Smith and Miragefla were experimenting with increasing their damage to 200 (From 160) and as far as I could tell, people loved it! What happened?
1 Dec 2017, 06:44 AM
#10
1 
Posts: 1276
I'd be fine with the low damage if it wasn't so inconsistent in the pen/accuracy department.
The health, speed, and armor of the unit I generally feel are okay outside of maybe the acceleration.
The health, speed, and armor of the unit I generally feel are okay outside of maybe the acceleration.
1 Dec 2017, 08:38 AM
#11
Posts: 1740
Is it better to let IS-2 be equal to all other heavy tanks (tiger,pershing) or be a unique tank that can enter into an asymmetrical balance.
Why is bad that IS-2 have the same "role" as King tiger?
I would go with the second option. It really makes no sense that those bigger guns are just not living up to expectations. I remember that Mr.Smith and Miragefla were experimenting with increasing their damage to 200 (From 160) and as far as I could tell, people loved it! What happened?
I don't think that buffing the IS-2 to a Soviet KT is a good idea, because everyone who has ever played allies will agree that the KT is simply cancer to play against. Way easy to get in team games and extremely hard to destroy.
I still think that giving the IS-2 a better accuracy will fix most of its problems. Because its armour already feels like a KT if you play as Germans.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
1 Dec 2017, 08:50 AM
#12
Posts: 2243
the problem is: a KT need all 3 trucks + 275fuel ...the IS2 need no tech. You can callin when u have the CPs for a lower price...
thats a huge difference
thats a huge difference
1 Dec 2017, 09:34 AM
#13
Posts: 712
is2 needs some love
1 Dec 2017, 10:16 AM
#14
Posts: 284 | Subs: 1
the problem is: a KT need all 3 trucks + 275fuel ...the IS2 need no tech. You can callin when u have the CPs for a lower price...
thats a huge difference
KT is non-doctrine super heavy tanks, and if you do the right thing it can rush to hit the field in no time.
Mediums/ Heavies call-in is another issue.
1 Dec 2017, 10:22 AM
#15
Posts: 2243
KT is non-doctrine super heavy tanks, and if you do the right thing it can rush to hit the field in no time.
Mediums/ Heavies call-in is another issue.
hmm...yeah...well...when your team in a 4v4 is much stronger than enemy...and you have botoh fuel + opel blitz and caches u can get a kt in ca 12min. Thats right.
but this is not a kt problem...with the consterlation you could get with the same ressources ca 4-5 p4 or 3 panthers
dont blame the KT for weak enemy play
1 Dec 2017, 11:04 AM
#16
Posts: 4474
If the stats are not wrong it has 40 range but higher pen, armor (375),speed and rotation , and aoe than tiger (and mg are better) just make that 45 ,i don't think it will upset the balance much, the damage should remain 160 (same as tiger)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Dec 2017, 11:08 AM
#17
Posts: 4474
opel blitz are for user only
hmm...yeah...well...when your team in a 4v4 is much stronger than enemy...and you have botoh fuel + opel blitz and caches u can get a kt in ca 12min. Thats right.
but this is not a kt problem...with the consterlation you could get with the same ressources ca 4-5 p4 or 3 panthers
dont blame the KT for weak enemy play
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Dec 2017, 13:13 PM
#18
Posts: 1740
hmm...yeah...well...when your team in a 4v4 is much stronger than enemy...and you have botoh fuel + opel blitz and caches u can get a kt in ca 12min. Thats right.
Cost of a KT = 3 Trucks (30 Fuel) + Mechanized (50 Fuel) + Medic (30 Fuel) + Schwerer Panzer (120 Fuel?) + KT Cost (260 Fuel) = 490 Fuel
490 Fuel / 12 = 41 Fuel per Minute - And keep in mind that this would mean that you get 41 Fuel per Minute FROM THE START, which is simply not possible at all. So that means you need to get around 50 Fuel / Minute from about minute 4 and upwards -> Impossible.
Fuel drops are not possible, as you need CP for them that you won't get so fast.
There is no fucking way you can get 41 Fuel per Minute as you need BOTH Fuel Points and a lot of caches, which drain your MP like hell, especially in early game. Opel Blitz don't share ressources anymore with team mates and OKW cannot get them.
So, in summary, you're talking bullshit again.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
1 Dec 2017, 15:15 PM
#19
Posts: 2243
Cost of a KT = 3 Trucks (30 Fuel) + Mechanized (50 Fuel) + Medic (30 Fuel) + Schwerer Panzer (120 Fuel?) + KT Cost (260 Fuel) = 490 Fuel
490 Fuel / 12 = 41 Fuel per Minute - And keep in mind that this would mean that you get 41 Fuel per Minute FROM THE START, which is simply not possible at all. So that means you need to get around 50 Fuel / Minute from about minute 4 and upwards -> Impossible.
Fuel drops are not possible, as you need CP for them that you won't get so fast.
There is no fucking way you can get 41 Fuel per Minute as you need BOTH Fuel Points and a lot of caches, which drain your MP like hell, especially in early game. Opel Blitz don't share ressources anymore with team mates and OKW cannot get them.
So, in summary, you're talking bullshit again.
big 4v4 map with double fuel + many caches make it possible...if u have baby as enemy...
on liene vs noobs you can block them in their base so they sourrender before min 10
or u get mostly about 50 fuel
its not impossible and not bullshit like you said
if enemy is weak enough..u can get a KT in 12min
what i forget:
fuel supply drops make it even faster possible..
1 Dec 2017, 17:42 PM
#20
Posts: 1660
I'd be fine with the low damage if it wasn't so inconsistent in the pen/accuracy department.
The health, speed, and armor of the unit I generally feel are okay outside of maybe the acceleration.
It has the HIGHEST penetration of all heavies, higher than tiger and king tiger, and the exact same accuracy of tiger and king tiger.
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