Okw smoke in 1v1

A well placed Vickers in a well placed building in 2s is terrible as OKW. Building Leigs to counter then easily sets off the artillery spam. Such as the infamous landmattress. But hey as strumpanther points out. Build Stuka to counter that simple. Or KT. Or p4s. Easy. Understand the sarcasm is real.

Double .50 cal as USF is a nightmare. Anyone with an above average brain knows how to easily counter the Stuka "hit or miss" but whatever. I know smoke will help from the Leigs a lot so I personally don't see an issue much anymore

Yeah, there are pretty much two types of smoke - early game smoke and late game smoke. Some factions have one covered but not the other. For example soviets could in theory build shocks or mortar to get the early game smoke but in the late game they struggle to cover their advance or retreat in smoke in the way ostheer, usf or ukf do. As for okw it is true they have some means of late game smoking but not in the early game. Real question is: is this a ballance problem or the design choice.

1) Yes smoke on sturms is a bad idea. Take that back, just brainstorming here

2)

Show Spoiler

Smoke for ost and soviets is completely fine in both late and early game. Bcs they have a 240 manpower, easily accesable, good (actually hitting something) mortar. For the people who think soviet normal mortar is bad, you can call in a heavy mortar which is actually worth what it costs (in contradiction to leigs). Ost has more possible smoke (smoke on tanks), but soviet smoking is completely FINE.
USF has enough smoke as well. They have smoke grenades for pretty much core infantry (either captains/lieutenants or rear echelons or rifles) and they have a good, cheap 240 mp mortar.
UKF has a mortar pit which is worth the cost. It's also really easy to get a sniper (you have to tech the building anyways) which means you can counter the mg's as well. They also have good abilities that aren't that expensive that can provide smoke.

OKW has leig smoke. Leig is shit and expensive. It does provide smoke, but it's unfair that other factions get good and cheap (or really good and expensive) mortars that provide smoke while the leig is not that good and expensive. Okw doesn't have a sniper who can deal with mg's. I'm not saying okw should get a sniper, but they should have something to compensate (core units or abilites, not commander wise) the lack of snipers AND affordable smoke. Flak halftrack is good, don't get me wrong. But if you want to use it to smoke of mg's there is a big chance you will lose it. Late game smoke for okw isn't that good as well. Should you use a 240 muni (at least 200 dont know how much exactly) to throw smoke for one time? Smoking mg's with a flak halftrack in late game definitely means you will lose it. Obers late game means you first have to bleed a lot before you get your smoke.

It's good that smoke is there on leigs, but to pay 80 mp more for a mortar that is less good then all of them just for having a bit more range (on which it doesnt hit anything) is quite unfair. 2 leigs cost 640 mp!!! That's insane imo, you can get a freaking pak43 for that. In team games it might be ok, but in 1v1 it's definitely not affordable imo.

A well placed Vickers in a well placed building in 2s is terrible as OKW. Building Leigs to counter then easily sets off the artillery spam. Such as the infamous landmattress. But hey as strumpanther points out. Build Stuka to counter that simple. Or KT. Or p4s. Easy. Understand the sarcasm is real.

Double .50 cal as USF is a nightmare. Anyone with an above average brain knows how to easily counter the Stuka "hit or miss" but whatever. I know smoke will help from the Leigs a lot so I personally don't see an issue much anymore

I'm going to update the title to okw smoke 1v1. I'm talking about 1v1's here from now on ^^
I agree you have other options than smoke in team games, but in 1v1 you can't just build a howitzer or a stuka. That's why you rarely see it as well

But hey as strumpanther points out. Build Stuka to counter that simple. Or KT. Or p4s. Easy. Understand the sarcasm is real.

Always fun, when people try to use your words but don't bring up the whole sense from it^^

I said in latgame. Yes in early/ midgame you can get in trouble. But also i think the made changes that ISG has smoke now can be a good way. Also then it will be maybe not in every single game luchs rush...

As I know volks can throw incendiary nade whatever. Keep crawling at the front of vicker and throw nade until you reach the range. That's all the skill you need.

Pinning is in the game

No it didn't, smoke would imply some smart cqb usage, but sturmshreck are a useless cqb unit (and at unit)

And whats why it worked. Simply giving Stumpios Smoke nades would be very broken, because of the cqb power and smoke. Allowing smoke only with the schreck upgrade solves that, because it removes some of the cqc power while still giving Okw some other form of smoke. It reinforces the support role of sturmschrecks. And thats all. Not buffing sturms even more. Its not perfect, but that other unit could get smoke, without introducing new ones? So its the best option in my opinion.

And whats why it worked. Simply giving Stumpios Smoke nades would be very broken, because of the cqb power and smoke. Allowing smoke only with the schreck upgrade solves that, because it removes some of the cqc power while still giving Okw some other form of smoke. It reinforces the support role of sturmschrecks. And thats all. Not buffing sturms even more. Its not perfect, but that other unit could get smoke, without introducing new ones? So its the best option in my opinion.

"Even more"
Please explain when they actually became a cost efficient unit to use outside of super repair...with his 0(zero) scaling and 30mp per model cost ^~^

Feel free to provide replays.

Or...maybe it was sarcasm lol XD

Give the Kubel a smoke launcher at vet 1 so its more useful later! Functionally it would make sense since theres no way kubels having smoke could be broken, but its another way to support your infantry.

I agree luftwaffles getting smoke could be very good as well.

Not alot of units to give the ability to is probably the biggest concern.


Also Leigs are definately expensive mortars, They are basically worse or equal at killing things(especially in buildings) but have better range to compensate. Would be nice to mabye see a price reduction after DBP range nerf if they UP.

I don't get why you claim that either soviet mortar is better than leig. The only reason why leig is not used that much is the popularity of luchs rush. When a player goes med truck first he most often goes for at least one leig, as opposed to soviet players who never get the mortar even if they actually build T2.

Problem with med truck is you get destroyed if you don't go luchs because volks can't stand up to 2x BAR, 2x Bren or penals. Then you have to rely on the underwhelming team weapons of OKW or Obers which come late and take awhile to vet at that point.

Problem with med truck is you get destroyed if you don't go luchs because volks can't stand up to 2x BAR, 2x Bren or penals. Then you have to rely on the underwhelming team weapons of OKW or Obers which come late and take awhile to vet at that point.

Don't worry, you can fall back on the IR Halftrack

It really is a shame that a unit slot in a tech building is wasted on that, Moving it hq or something and getting a real unit in would be wonderful even if very unlikely.

Problem with med truck is you get destroyed if you don't go luchs because volks can't stand up to 2x BAR, 2x Bren or penals. Then you have to rely on the underwhelming team weapons of OKW or Obers which come late and take awhile to vet at that point.

+1

Don't worry, you can fall back on the IR Halftrack

It really is a shame that a unit slot in a tech building is wasted on that, Moving it hq or something and getting a real unit in would be wonderful even if very unlikely.

++++++++++++1
A real halftrack

Like I said in 2015...

Normal grenade for volks.

Volks upgrade exchange normal nade for incendiary, and all rifles for smgs.

Sturms get smoke nade, with 1 tech truck, no schrecks.

Obers get schrecks.

I think this is more appropriate than ever considering DBP changes to OKW infantry.

/2015

I don't get why you claim that either soviet mortar is better than leig. The only reason why leig is not used that much is the popularity of luchs rush. When a player goes med truck first he most often goes for at least one leig, as opposed to soviet players who never get the mortar even if they actually build T2.

I'm not saying the mortar of the soviets is better then the leig. Soviet mortar is probably the worst of all real mortars. But it's at least equal to the leig. But the mortar is 80 manpower cheaper! Seems pretty unfair to me ^^

Problem with med truck is you get destroyed if you don't go luchs because volks can't stand up to 2x BAR, 2x Bren or penals. Then you have to rely on the underwhelming team weapons of OKW or Obers which come late and take awhile to vet at that point.

At the time you get your healing truck, nobody has dual BARs or dual Bren, or maybe in one squad only. On the meantime you get access to dual STG and lavanade on volks and HMGs...

I have played some games as OKW with my friends lately (internal games, don't look at my stats), and while being quite noob with OKW, I had really good success with the T1 ISG + halftrack. I forced them to dive hard with their tanks to finally take down my Halftrack.

OKW is really weak and vs early mg spam and can be base lock with it in the first 5min

why have OWK nothing against mgs?
every other faction has a sniper/ cheap and eraly mortar, flamers, smoke etc

No it didn't, smoke would imply some smart cqb usage, but sturmshreck are a useless cqb unit (and at unit)

so being able to counter early bofor are not something good ? and 1 shreck hit allow volk to do engine damage and engine damage plus proper tools , great terrain and line of sight is dead vehicle

sweeper is must have against SU true but that doesn't deny the fact that shreck upgrade is pretty good at their job

I don't want to be a dick here, but talking about top 50 1v1's. So it's pretty likely that somebody has double bars quite quickly. And it's pretty likely that somebody can micro away or punish mistakes quite fast ^^.
Just adding that so we don't fall into discussion that aren't needed

Meanwhile UKF cries in a corner with its only non doc, none moveable 400MP unit that has smoke...