Can we get a USF thread for DBP the faction is falling flat

While most will argue that USF is OPopie The faction bleeds rather hard and has a rather odd tech pacing in comparison to other factions. While I find the main underlying cause of the bleed is due to the STGs on volks, in other match ups the USF riflemen squad seems to drop its 5th man rather fast reducing its overall DPS rather quickly without really balancing out. sure, you can make it up with nades maybe but generally the matchup is rather a huge MP sink.

>Nade tech: while USF nades are potent AF vs squads in green cover, building clearing, the costs of the nades, and the cost of the tech, often makes it hard to fit into the tech pacing of the game outside of 1v1. To counter the early armor, you must rush t2 in 2v2s+ or risk early armor getting the best of you. The lack of fuel means you cannot get nade tech, and the cost of 30 muni nades + tech means that you are behind in both tech and muni for mines making it hard to counter light vehicles.

The major tech rolls out late where a p4 making it hard to get an M4 advantage and now with the DBP buff to p4 makes the unit fit rather oddly into the tech.


USF needs something and if you must nerf others to make the faction play more A symmetrical so be it but as its stands USF requires the most micro, most cheese, and the most talent and map awareness to get it to work in coh2 past 1v1s



Anything else you guys can add? I mean I could go on for days about the lack of building clears (flamethrowers) or lack of scout cars (wc51) in base tech to help flank but you get the gist.


Dont take my ideas as "this needs to happen" but they are issues surely and at least the small mine changes are a step in the right direction.

Make the USF mortar usable or give them a transport truck (The doctrinal kubel with a squad slot doesn't count). Making a USF player rely on smoke grenades you have to tech into specifically to counter the most common weapons team in the game is dumb AF.

Add dedicated 4 man BAR team to LT tier and 4 man Zook team to Captain for 300 MP each. No grenades, RE carbines as regular weapons. Volley Fire and sprint as abilities at vet 1.

Make Rifles 260 MP.

Make Major 110 fuel.

Swap AT gun and .50 cal.

Buff .50 Cal range by +5.

Maybe in 1vs1 is strong but in 4vs4 i always feel USF is behind with fuel and tech, brits or okw have cheap first truck or bulding but USF? In my opinion captain is only solution for 4v4 because M1 at.
60 fuel for that bulding is way too much and having in mind that side tech like granades or bar/zook cost a lot too i dont look at ambulance because okw have same side tech with medics. I think sherman should be on battlefield at same time like crommwell not panhter

Playing USF is like playing paper scissor stone, but you can only choose paper every time not matter what your opponent has chosen.

When it comes to USF early game it performs too well vs Ostheer. They added the mortar to counter the MG 42 and the grenade smoke allows even their starting infantry to counter the MG 42. Ostheer does not have any other non-doctrinal openers. They must build an MG 42 but even then their field presence is much lacking in comparison to other factions. My solution to this is to buff the Pioneer to be an actual fighting squad along with the Soviet's Combat Engineer. Ostheer's pioneer and the Soviet's Combat Engineer are the weakest units in the game. The Soviet's Combat Engineers is a four man pre-rework Conscript squad. The Ostheer's Pioneer has trouble fighting even with absolute perfect engagements. They will tie with the reworked conscripts and uncovered Infantry Sections. They still straight up lose vs Riflemen, Penals, and covered Infantry Sections. Of course, absolute perfect engagements never happen so pioneers never have any fighting power apart from the flamer. Ostheer is always munitions starved since their units are generally the weakest vs their counterpart. If pioneers where to receive a buff then openers such as a duel pioneers would be mean the MG 42 would be less common and then the Riflemen smoke would not be all that strong.

The USF mortar as we all know is the weakest thanks to its range of 65. Though the smoke range will be buffed to 80. In order to make it more usable, I would suggest on reducing its set up and tear down times for more mobility. Since all of its counter parts can counter barrage it quite easily, this will help it avoid fire and able to help assist riflemen being able to keep up with them.

When it comes to lieutenant tech, the main problem is the lack of AT. This is fine since bazookas are a possibility and a quite reasonable option. However this conflicts with the M20, munitions hungry support unit. Instead of switching the AT gun and the HMG with the captain tech I propose this. Switching the M20 and the Pack Howizter. The M20 can lay mines for the M1 AT guns. The lieutenant tech would still rely on bazookas while the pack howitzer and HMG are still excellent anti-infantry. Perhaps as well reducing the research time of the lieutenant tech as well?

When it comes to USF early game it performs too well vs Ostheer. They added the mortar to counter the MG 42

The mg42 was made t0 because USF officer squads overran Ostheer.

The design flaw of officer squads in USF has caused a chain reaction of imbalanced changes. It remains a moving target.

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^^^^
Lol this is what I said yesterday.
First tech is more fuel expensive but give rifles a captain/liutenent model.

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THIS

For the life of me, i can't understand why rifles are still able to equip zooks.

Zooks should be restricted to RE units, and at the same time defining the roll of the RE to be a supportive unit.

There should be more of a reward for killing off an early RE squad to able then Rush a light vehicle.

Givin that tank crews are able to rep their own Tanks as well. I find that all to be a bit silly.

Just a side note, RE does have the ability to equip3 a weapon and sweep for Mines.

rifles with zooks are a non issue, if your using 2 slots for zooks you have no AI capacity. The DBP is already forcing the use of RE rather than making alternative strategies appealing. We gave Wher a T0 MG to open up "diverse gameplay" and alternate builds and gave OKW the MG upon tech for the same reason.

Why USF needs to remain the stale build order faction with a huge overhaul coming I do not know. MG in T0 unlocked with any tech up choice of LT or CPT would be start. It was boring to start with just Grens as Wher, its pretty boring to start with rifles 100% unless your doing some Sprice troll strategy with USF. I like DBP alot, just find it incredible that USF will remain a 1 serious unit start strategy faction.

The mg42 was made t0 because USF officer squads overran Ostheer.

The design flaw of officer squads in USF has caused a chain reaction of imbalanced changes. It remains a moving target.

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That would actually be really cool. I miss muh six man rifle squads from vcoh. Also, the officers kinda just force you into really infantry heavy play when coupled with the fact that usf has literally no viable alternatives to a 3-4 rifle opening.

That would actually be really cool. I miss muh six man rifle squads from vcoh. Also, the officers kinda just force you into really infantry heavy play when coupled with the fact that usf has literally no viable alternatives to a 3-4 rifle opening.

One of my test/balance mods still has that functionality...

I may try and extract that into a contained single purpose tuning pack if people want to play around with how it works.

I think in my mod I decided on up to 3 LTs and 1 captain possible, and the LTs gave AT nades and Captain gave smoke nades. It was definitely unpolished, but at that time I was trying to make it so mortars, ATGs, and MGs all got unique abilities depending of if (and which) officer was attached. I think the LT was only 20 fuel. Both Captain and LT were 100mp.

I could get the abilities to transfer IIRC, but hadn't started trying to get the vet to change. (They all retained riflemen vet, so no vet3 sprinting in that scenario.)

One of my test/balance mods still has that functionality...

I may try and extract that into a contained single purpose tuning pack if people want to play around with how it works.

I think in my mod I decided on up to 3 LTs and 1 captain possible, and the LTs gave AT nades and Captain gave smoke nades. It was definitely unpolished, but at that time I was trying to make it so mortars, ATGs, and MGs all got unique abilities depending of if (and which) officer was attached. I think the LT was only 20 fuel. Both Captain and LT were 100mp.

I could get the abilities to transfer IIRC, but hadn't started trying to get the vet to change. (They all retained riflemen vet, so no vet3 sprinting in that scenario.)

Huh that's pretty interesting. Did you have it set up more as a linear teching system where you are supposed to (or have to) tech both lt and capt?

Because I would much rather have that system then the stupid non linear, pick one unless you're going armor for callin cheese crap (especially the way their tiers are set up)

Huh that's pretty interesting. Did you have it set up more as a linear teching system where you are supposed to (or have to) tech both lt and capt?

Because I would much rather have that system then the stupid non linear, pick one unless you're going armor for callin cheese crap (especially the way their tiers are set up)

I had to load a few games with different tuning packs to finally remember.

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There was an 'Officer Corp' upgrade that allowed you to call in officers. I had essentially extracted the officers from tech and made them their own "T1" of sorts to support riflemen. At the time I had the 50 cal in T0 and had given USF a t0 mortar that was essentially the soviet t2 mortar. (I made it pre-USF mortar implementation.) My intention at the time was for the officers to attach to team weapons for unique abilities, but never finished.

I'd given USF a lot of doctrinal units as stock units. For example M1 Sherman and M10 were stock with Major (who was unchanged), but then USF could tech further, afterwards, and unlock Easy 8s and Jacksons.

It was a different time. I think if I were making another balance suggestion mod (I've made more than a few) I would just change the officers to the 1man system and not mess with any teching to isolate the impact of the changes.

pack howie should be a buildable artillery unit constructed by REs.