Ostheer perspective from a mostly OKW player

First of all this is not a rant and i don't mean to troll, i'm just curious to hear the point of view from more experienced players.
I'm by no mean an expert like many on this forum are but i consider myself a decent player, as the title says i mostly play OKW as Axis and now i have started to learn how to play OST and after several games with some friends it really looks to me that the Ostheer is inferior in almost every aspect compared to his big brother OKW.
This feeling is further consolidated by the fact that when i play Allies (mainly UKF and then USF not much Soviet) i have far more trouble dealing with the OKW than with OST and since from what i understand in the next patch Axis is getting nerfed again the gap between the two will wide even more (at least OKW leig will finally get smoke).
By the way i'm not speaking for 1v1 but exclusively for team games, i think its undeniable that right now Ostheer is at best being carried and at worst being a burden for OKW, I even read some CoH2 veterans saying that in 2v2 is better to go double OKW rather than OKW and OST.
As it stands now outside 1v1 i see no reasons to play Ostheer what do you think? Is it really a subpar faction? Or is just more difficult to play effectively? It should be buffed or it deserves a nerf? Which are your opinions?

Well, OST has nondoc flamethrowers, sniper with ridiculuosly fast rate of fire, the best MG and rifle grenades (+some cool doctrines)
Thats about all of their their advantages.

Ostheer has been considered the "golden standard" for balancing purposes. This has resulted in ostheer being kept static and all the other factions adjusted with the notion that ostheer is the best designed and balanced faction.

The problem is that WFA factions and especially brits exemplify power creep in balance and design. Soviets have seen a number of nerfs and (forced) buffs to make the faction able to handle this power creep.

Ostheer has not. Balancing is suppose to bring factions closer to ostheers design, but this is rather impossible or at least unfeasible. It also hasnt really happened in practice with the last two years of patching.

So in short: yes. They are inferior due to power creep, but their design is the closest to the existing and unique game mechanics of the franchise.

They have everything, but they can't afford everything. They are the poorest faction most of the time with regard to map control and teching costs. Next patch should be slightly better with popcap improvements, panther, Ostwind and Panzer4 buffs, but we will see where the allied ajustments land them.

Ostheer has all the tools a good player would want. The other factions tend to be more reliant to meta, gimmick or cheese strats. The WFA factions especially are inducing a much more cut-throat game dynamic, where you win hard or you lose hard.
Concerning team games, Ost has no forward retreat option, so that by itself is obviously a huge drawback, but ost also has no long range TD like the JP4. Although Ost has Panthers which are allegedly in a good spot™, OKW has one too, so why bother with Ost in team games, which tend to be a huge shitfest anyway, full of indirect fire, spamming and cheesing around - all things that Ost is not particularly good at.
Only Snipers come to my mind right now, but they don't survive the midgame most of the times, so there's that..

Everything is mediocre about ostheer,except the mg42 and the brumbarr,elefant in a 4 vs 4.
Its just a mediocre faction that can defend somewhat if used with skill but can't push as its armour can't handle allied a tank destroyers and its infantry can't handle late game allied vet infantry.It has huge problems vs mortar pit supported by bofors/at gun as well.

Judging from the answers, most people here seems to agree, they have some nice tools, but they are mostly inferior to OKW/Allies factions.
I understand that it's mainly a problem of OST being one of the original factions of the game so more similar to Soviet, it has everything but can't affort everything as somebody up here said.
But then i ask why Soviet seems to have acquainted quite well against WFA enemies aka OKW while OST hasn't been adjusted in the same way? Since Allies have 3 factions and Axis only have 2 it would make more sense to me to care a bit more of OST rather than Soviet.

The reason Soviets haven't suffered this same fate has to do with how Soviets have never been in a good spot. They, like the later factions, have had to rely on some hefty cheese tactics. For years it was maxim spam, which actually was the one scenario ostheer could handle, due to both sides using team weapons, and probably more than anything grenadier rifle nades. Plus pio flamethrowers.

But soviet always relied on their commander callins for guards for the longest time. So when penals were forced into being the One True Way to play soviets, it was largely because of the soviet v okw matchup. They were made to be versatile and strong enough that soviets wouldn't always go t2. But then maxim was obliterated after the penals were changed.

So you get penals with new bells and whistles, like ptrs, at satchels, and to the last man.

Ostheer on the other hand got... Nothing really, despite lategame wehrmacht infantry scaling being one of the original charges for the balance team.

Is this speaking from a balance patch standpoint or live version?

The patch changes a few things substantially, and I mean substantially.

Ostheer on the other hand got... Nothing really, despite lategame wehrmacht infantry scaling being one of the original charges for the balance team.

Hey you are completely incorrect. They got the ability for grens and Pgrens to use their medpacks on themselves.

Hey you are completely incorrect. They got the ability for grens and Pgrens to use their medpacks on themselves.

Oh forgive me. I forgot how that solved ostheer's issues.

Point taken though. I think it highlights my point though.

The reason Soviets haven't suffered this same fate has to do with how Soviets have never been in a good spot. They, like the later factions, have had to rely on some hefty cheese tactics. For years it was maxim spam, which actually was the one scenario ostheer could handle, due to both sides using team weapons, and probably more than anything grenadier rifle nades. Plus pio flamethrowers.

But soviet always relied on their commander callins for guards for the longest time. So when penals were forced into being the One True Way to play soviets, it was largely because of the soviet v okw matchup. They were made to be versatile and strong enough that soviets wouldn't always go t2. But then maxim was obliterated after the penals were changed.

So you get penals with new bells and whistles, like ptrs, at satchels, and to the last man.

Ostheer on the other hand got... Nothing really, despite lategame wehrmacht infantry scaling being one of the original charges for the balance team.

3/5 Con strats was a thing but mostly on the first 1/2 years.
Maxim spam was mostly an anti OKW strat although some also used it against OH.
Somewhere there before they removed sprint, double snipers.
Cpt molo double clowncar opening.

OH could always handle SU, specially after holding the T70. After buffing Penals, they were basically Rifleman flamers, a situation which OH couldn't handle but opposed to USF, they didn't had zooks, cpt or a Stuart. What they did had was a strong call in in the Guards. T70, Guard and Maxim nerf later, you end up with Penals been the only unit with the "old" power level.


OH relied on the same clutch thing as SU, but people don't consider it "cheesy". G43/Osstruppen/Sniper/FHT (against 1 dimensional no AT strats)/222 (old one due to cost)/Stug E (old)/Stug G/TWP/Tiger/CAS. Somewhere there you had Puma/Command tank which was basically a response to light vehicle meta.

OH never got changes which basically alter the basic style of play besides very few instances (Pio spam). Saying they never got "anything" is kinda misleading. Double HP +2 on the sniper made it from a glasscannon into an oppressive unit. The only other "Penal" type of change they got was with the buff and ninja change on 222 cost which although "OP", it was overshadowed by other things still (also bugged MGs). Brummbar, something you can't easily get on 1v1 but more so on teamgames, received a deserved buff. Then it was just slight buff like Pio changes.

@OP

Ostheer is basically a faction which doesn't rely on "cheese" or 1 dimensional strats, which for most people is way harder to pull off.
While strong, 4 man squad (gren/mg42/mortar) and sniper are way harder to micro than just moving around with Volks. Same with 222/FHT vs P2.
The thing is, it's easier to be punished as OH, as opposed to OKW. The amount of effort/micro you need to put into each faction is "abysmal". I'll say that OH+ any number of OKW is more versatile but for anyone who is not top200 i'll say they will have an easier life by just playing OKW on teamgames.

Ostheer is basically a faction which doesn't rely on "cheese" or 1 dimensional strats, which for most people is way harder to pull off.

Let's say it better
"It's in a good spot"

https://i.imgur.com/9AAmhzV.jpg

Ostheer are fine imo, something need buff, somthing nerf, but its like soviet almsot balanced faction.
Problems are with some stuff from WFA, ostheer have infatry problem vs brits and some vs problem vs USF vs 2 bars/calliOP. Same problem are with 4 man squads from 2013, but now its better.

The thing is, it's easier to be punished as OH, as opposed to OKW. The amount of effort/micro you need to put into each faction is "abysmal". I'll say that OH+ any number of OKW is more versatile but for anyone who is not top200 i'll say they will have an easier life by just playing OKW on teamgames.

I get what you're saying, yes in a 4v4 game it's definitely better to have one OST rather than all OKW, but say in a 2v2 it's better to have both OKW rather than both OST, at least it seems to me because when me and a friend tried the former it felt so much easier than the latter.
But then doesn't the fact that you have to put a lot more effort into a faction (OST) to get the same results you would get with a lot less effort with another one (OKW) make it by definition inferior?

....
But then doesn't the fact that you have to put a lot more effort into a faction (OST) to get the same results you would get with a lot less effort with another one (OKW) make it by definition inferior?

Actually it is not Ostheer that is "inferior" but OKW who are superior as all WFA.

First of all this is not a rant and i don't mean to troll, i'm just curious to hear the point of view from more experienced players.
I'm by no mean an expert like many on this forum are but i consider myself a decent player, as the title says i mostly play OKW as Axis and now i have started to learn how to play OST and after several games with some friends it really looks to me that the Ostheer is inferior in almost every aspect compared to his big brother OKW.
This feeling is further consolidated by the fact that when i play Allies (mainly UKF and then USF not much Soviet) i have far more trouble dealing with the OKW than with OST and since from what i understand in the next patch Axis is getting nerfed again the gap between the two will wide even more (at least OKW leig will finally get smoke).
By the way i'm not speaking for 1v1 but exclusively for team games, i think its undeniable that right now Ostheer is at best being carried and at worst being a burden for OKW, I even read some CoH2 veterans saying that in 2v2 is better to go double OKW rather than OKW and OST.
As it stands now outside 1v1 i see no reasons to play Ostheer what do you think? Is it really a subpar faction? Or is just more difficult to play effectively? It should be buffed or it deserves a nerf? Which are your opinions?

Ostheer is garbage right now.