demos works in WBP V1.3

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2017, 09:45 AMullumulu

they doesn´t looks useless in my eyes...not this BS abilty like now...but in my experince in 1.3 they wipes full squads, if handled smart:

https://youtu.be/UJTo7-U-YYY?t=2537

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2017, 15:42 PMsherlock

I had some time to test the demo and I think AE is right in that, that it will be too powerful in the hands of really good players. The other problem is as well that it still remains a cheesy squad wiper, but now with a higher skill requirement and lower cost. The current design also makes it even less effective against massed infantry since they are monitored, so it is most attractive to place them somewhere remote where the other player might not look.

I would prefer to see the demo as a better tool to counter or discourage blobbing. I see the problem in that demos can actually induce blobbing because a minesweeper can only be at one place at a time.

So here are some other solutions, that could be worth looking into:

• Abandon the classical design: When the demo is set off make it release a flare (like the tripwire flare) and have a single incendiary barrage shell land after 3 (or more appropriate amount of time) seconds. The demo can no longer be targeted by small arms but can no longer be set off if a minesweeper is within a 5 (or more appropriate amount of distance) distance.
  What this would achieve:
  - The demo becomes a more effective blob counter that is still effective against units in buildings but also does not completely destroy the building or the squad right away.
  - There is counter play by having the demo no longer be usable if a mine sweeper is too close, which also allows it to be defused without it going off.
  - The demo is no longer outright killing lone capping squads.
  - The demo can only be effectively used with sight.
  - The demo can still be "defused" by attack grounding with weapons other than small arms.
  
• Suppression and damage: Have it deal 60 damage and suppression. The demo can no longer be targeted by small arms. Lower the cost to 60 munitions (or more appropriate amount).
  What this would achieve:
  - No outright squad wipes of single squads.
  - Effective measure against blobs.
  - Still effective blob deterrent as it can no longer be set off by small arms. That way one has to use a mortar, grenade or tank shell to set it off which would at least delay advances. So while it still encourages to blob with a minesweeper, the mine sweeper does no longer render the demo uneffective the moment it is discovered. It at least delays and even if the player misses the demo for some reason, it will not kill squads (unless every entity in the squad is below 60 health).
  - Very cost ineffective against single capping squads.
  
• (My old suggestion with a change: ) Have demos kill all but one entity in a squad within its blast radius (potentially increase the radius): The demo starts being more cost effective the more squads are within the blast radius and it stops wiping squads outright. For a single squad it would just be a really, really expensive mine without the suppression. Demos can no longer be targeted by small arms.
  

I find AE's suggestion also very interesting, but they would keep the one-click squad wipe character of the demo and I think most would still be frustrated by it.