Some easy solvable design issues for December patch

Updated first post according to the last version of DBP! Glad to see, how many fixies going to be applied in total TO the UI!

Have you already decided what to do with UI stuff for new units?

Here is some issues:
1. Assault package for volks doesn't has proper icon (should have MP 40 on icon).
2. OKW Opel Blitz using portraits from Ostheer Opel Blitz (Different Background). Should be like here (i have done it for 1 minute only for example need to be edited by professional artist )
Show Spoiler
3. Jager command squad still doesn't has unique shieldsymbol and call-in icon. Here could help Kasarov, his shieldsymbols are awesome and on solid level!

4. WC 51 using wrong icon for M2HB upgrade.
Right one called: Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_aef_50_cal_machine_gun

5. leIG 18 incendiary barrage doesn't have proper icon. I have made is by myself:

Due to standartisation leIG should use:
For standart barrage: Icons_abilities_ability_aef_m8a1_artillery_barrage
For Smoke barrage (already using): Icons_abilities_ability_aef_m8a1_smoke_barrage
For incendiary barrage: new one
And it will looks like this:

6. KV-8 still not has proper icon. Even more, it's call-in icon stay untouched.
7. OKW Opel Blitz can use better icon for his aura : Icons_abilities_ability_west_german_suppression

Some suggestions for already exist units:
1. Penals can use better icon for their AT satchel: Icons_bob_abilities_at_satchel_charge

2. ISU-152 can use better quality icon for G-530 to better match with HE/AT switching abillity: Icons_abilities_ability_british_piercing_shot


And, if Relic will finally decided to implementing new UI stuff, don't forget about those ones:
Show Spoiler

Some vehicles, abilities and other units use confusing "fx_munition_name" and produce impact-animations which don't fit with the effect of their performance. That produces an unreal atmosphere and frustrations for new entrants. (and simply looks unprofessional)

E.g. the Firefly uses same impact like Jagdtiger but it performes like Panther

To bring all similar weapon-types in line with their counter-part of other fractions I made a list
of changes depending on their caliber and AI or AT effect. Also some biasas were found and fixed:

- aef <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"m10_m5_3inch_gun_mp" "shell_75mm" -> "shell_medium"
"m10_m5_3inch_ap_gun" "shell_heavy_he" -> ""shell_medium_he"
"m15a1_halftrack_37mm_mp" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"m26_pershing_90mm_hvap_piercing_shot_mp" "shell_90mm" -> "shell_medium_he"
"m36_m4_90mm_gun_mp" "shell_90mm" -> "shell_medium"
"m36_m4_90mm_ap_gun_mp" "shell_heavy_he" -> "shell_medium_he"

- axis <ballistic_weapons <anti_tank_gun

"75mm_pak_40_ap_mp" "shell_medium" -> "ability_stuncritical"

- * <* <infantry_anti_tank_weapon

"panzerfaust_atw_mp" "rocket_light" -> "shell_medium_heat"

- * <* <tank_gun

"panzer_4_75mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"
"panzer_4_75mm_short_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_medium_he"
"tiger_kwk36_88mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_90mm"

- british <ballistic_weapon <anti_tank_gun

"17_pounder_atg_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "shell_88mm"
"17_pounder_piercing_shot_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "ability_stuncritical"

- * <* <tank_gun

"bofor_emplacement_40mm_autocannon" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"bofor_emplacement_40mm_autocannon_barrage" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"sherman_firefly_76mm_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "shell_medium"

- soviet <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"su85_d5t_85mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_medium"
"t34_76mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"

- west_german <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"panzer_iv_kwk40_75mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"
"tiger_kwk43_88mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_90mm"

--------

To explain:

normal shells:

"shell_medium" = small impact without explosion for light/medium tank-hunter
"shell_75mm" = small impact with a small explosion for small/medium battle-tank
"shell_88" = medium impact with medium explosion for medium/heavy battle-tank and heavy tank-hunter
"shell_90" = large impact with large explosion for heavy battle-tank
"shell_jagdtiger"= very large impact for ultra-heavy tank-hunter

heat shells and hollow charge:

"ability_stuncritical" = HEAT with metal lightning
"rocket_light" = small hollow charge with small explosion
"shell_medium_heat" = normal hollow charge with normal Explosion

explosives

"shell_medium_he" = medium explosion
"shell_heavy_he" = large explosion

flak

"20mmShell" = small impact and small aoe
"flak_dense_small" = small impact and medium aoe
"flak" = medium impact and large aoe with shrapnel

Some vehicles, abilities and other units use confusing "fx_munition_name" and produce impact-animations which don't fit with the effect of their performance. That produces an unreal atmosphere and frustrations for new entrants. (and simply looks unprofessional)

E.g. the Firefly uses same impact like Jagdtiger but it performes like Panther

To bring all similar weapon-types in line with their counter-part of other fractions I made a list
of changes depending on their caliber and AI or AT effect. Also some biasas were found and fixed:

- aef <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"m10_m5_3inch_gun_mp" "shell_75mm" -> "shell_medium"
"m10_m5_3inch_ap_gun" "shell_heavy_he" -> ""shell_medium_he"
"m15a1_halftrack_37mm_mp" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"m26_pershing_90mm_hvap_piercing_shot_mp" "shell_90mm" -> "shell_medium_he"
"m36_m4_90mm_gun_mp" "shell_90mm" -> "shell_medium"
"m36_m4_90mm_ap_gun_mp" "shell_heavy_he" -> "shell_medium_he"

- axis <ballistic_weapons <anti_tank_gun

"75mm_pak_40_ap_mp" "shell_medium" -> "ability_stuncritical"

- * <* <infantry_anti_tank_weapon

"panzerfaust_atw_mp" "rocket_light" -> "shell_medium_heat"

- * <* <tank_gun

"panzer_4_75mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"
"panzer_4_75mm_short_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_medium_he"
"tiger_kwk36_88mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_90mm"

- british <ballistic_weapon <anti_tank_gun

"17_pounder_atg_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "shell_88mm"
"17_pounder_piercing_shot_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "ability_stuncritical"

- * <* <tank_gun

"bofor_emplacement_40mm_autocannon" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"bofor_emplacement_40mm_autocannon_barrage" "20mmShell" -> "flak"
"sherman_firefly_76mm_mp" "shell_jagdtiger" -> "shell_medium"

- soviet <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"su85_d5t_85mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_medium"
"t34_76mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"

- west_german <ballistic_weapon <tank_gun

"panzer_iv_kwk40_75mm_mp" "shell_medium" -> "shell_75mm"
"tiger_kwk43_88mm_mp" "shell_88mm" -> "shell_90mm"

--------

To explain:

normal shells:

"shell_medium" = small impact without explosion for light/medium tank-hunter
"shell_75mm" = small impact with a small explosion for small/medium battle-tank
"shell_88" = medium impact with medium explosion for medium/heavy battle-tank and heavy tank-hunter
"shell_90" = large impact with large explosion for heavy battle-tank
"shell_jagdtiger"= very large impact for ultra-heavy tank-hunter

heat shells and hollow charge:

"ability_stuncritical" = HEAT with metal lightning
"rocket_light" = small hollow charge with small explosion
"shell_medium_heat" = normal hollow charge with normal Explosion

explosives

"shell_medium_he" = medium explosion
"shell_heavy_he" = large explosion

flak

"20mmShell" = small impact and small aoe
"flak_dense_small" = small impact and medium aoe
"flak" = medium impact and large aoe with shrapnel

Wow! Insane post and great work, Widerstreit!

P.S. Hey, maybe someone would make same post about sound standartisation for guns, engines and etc.?

Next thing is to add range and max. angle indicatores for all fraction's tanks. Especially tank-hunter without rotary battle Tower (turrets ^^) benefits from it. Also German hull-down becomes a more tactical aspect.

It isn't difficult do make, work of some minuts and all fractions benefit from it. You only have to add an "ui_setfacing" to tank's weapon.

I made two new "ui_setfacing" for tanks with and without tower and optimiced their look. If a tank WITHOUT battle-tower is in "hull-down" it gets the "ui_setfaceing" of a PaK, so you can see it can't move.

(for hull-down you have to make a clone of 1.hardpoint-weapon and simply change the ui. Put into the hull-down effect action a Remove_weapon, Add_weapon, change_weapon. Out of hull-down it will be reset automaticly)

Outlook-link for pictures:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Auba63jVJDDGnKwyQLKQsL82Zadr1w

Hope you like it. ;D

Battle tower? This is a literal translation of the German(?) for turret? Cool I like the sound of battle towered tanks

hahaha... in German it is "Gefechtsturm" or "Panzergefechtsturm". Battle-Tower or tank-battle-tower. Turret didn't come into my mind, because that would be "Revolver" in German and that is a handgun.

Lack of vocabulary. ^^

Curious turret for us comes from Castle ‘turrets’ which are the towers on a castle wall. I would assume it has a French origin as it was the Norman lords that built them all


Maybe it relates to the round ‘barrel’ shape like the revolver piece

Off-Topic continuing... it is like "Machicolation", in German they are "Wurfscharte" (throw-loop) or also "Maschikuli". My problems are these French borrowed words that destroy my mind. ^^


But say me, are you "pro" or "contra" weapon indicators for tanks?

Off-Topic continuing... it is like "Machicolation", in German they are "Wurfscharte" (throw-loop) or also "Maschikuli". My problems are these French borrowed words that destroy my mind. ^^


But say me, are you "pro" or "contra" weapon indicators for tanks?

I think if they’re static then an/arc range indicator is helpful

weapon indicators would be a great addition to hull down, but it would a UI clusterfuck if every tank has it by default. Just imagine a 4vs4 with 5+ tanks at the same spot and all with the indicators on.

Next thing is to add range and max. angle indicatores for all fraction's tanks. Especially tank-hunter without rotary battle Tower (turrets ^^) benefits from it. Also German hull-down becomes a more tactical aspect.

It isn't difficult do make, work of some minuts and all fractions benefit from it. You only have to add an "ui_setfacing" to tank's weapon.

I made two new "ui_setfacing" for tanks with and without tower and optimiced their look. If a tank WITHOUT battle-tower is in "hull-down" it gets the "ui_setfaceing" of a PaK, so you can see it can't move.

(for hull-down you have to make a clone of 1.hardpoint-weapon and simply change the ui. Put into the hull-down effect action a Remove_weapon, Add_weapon, change_weapon. Out of hull-down it will be reset automaticly)

Outlook-link for pictures:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Auba63jVJDDGnKwyQLKQsL82Zadr1w

Hope you like it. ;D

It is great addition for turretless tanks and tanks with larger range of fire,than their sight.
Also, better to use sniper range indicator for units with turret (like 251/17 has)

@Osinyagov

Sniper's indicator doesn't have the arrows on it. But I like it because you know how the tank is positioned. That is kind of luxury haha.

We have to find a decent look, so it isn't a problem if you have more vehicles under commando.


One thing that could become a problem is, that mobile units with 60+ range become to easy to use. They will become more dominant than now in 2vs2 upward. We have to think about giving Ost Tiger 50 range and 55 with Vet2 so more Commanders Can deal with that.

Also british QF6pounder needs some changes, maybe remove 25% multiblier and give it pen of Zis to compensate the access to 17punder and Firefly. Even then it has more DPS than all other Allii Paks. Because now it is a more accurate, faster turning PaK40 clone. And don't forget the PaK40 got a nerf too.

But that is my opinin.

EDIT:

Maybe give Tigerass an other skin, it really looks so ugly. ^^

Hey, there is one wish of mine. Can we remove the MG42 turret/shield of StuG3 Ausf. G before the battle-upgrade was made? The StuG has so a beautiful Silhouette, but that MG destroys the aesthetic. At that time we can also give StuG3 Ausf. E. same MG-Upgrade as the normal StuG too.

I personally never upgrade the StuG, because the gunner will reveal the tank in ambush.

So it looks:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Auba63jVJDDGnKw4ylcp5KWOsI0QQQ

If you shoot out the crew the shield will stay on the vehicle, the new owner has "only" to update the gunner again.

How to make:

sbps\race\german\vehicles\stug_iii_suqad\stug_iii_squad_mp
<squad_action_apply_ext
<"2. requirement_action"
add: <"2. animator_set_state"
apply_to_leader_only "false"
do_action_state_name "Off"
retrigger "false"
state_machine_name "pintle_mg42_visibility"

<"3. requirement_action"
add: <"2. animator_set_state"
apply_to_leader_only "false"
do_action_state_name "On"
retrigger "false"
state_machine_name "pintle_mg42_visibility"

There is an option to go even further and replace all pintle MG 42 on MG 34 due to:
1. it is more historical
2. There is already exist pintle MG 34 on flamehetzer.
3. MG 34 has better 3D model

Why is the TM-35 treated as an AI mine and the PMD-6M as an AT mine? It's precisely the other way around, it would be nice to see that fixed.

Why is the TM-35 treated as an AI mine and the PMD-6M as an AT mine? It's precisely the other way around, it would be nice to see that fixed.

In the russian text localization i fixed that with renaming PMD-6M into YaM-5 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/YaM-5_box_mine), but idk what to do with TM-35.
By the way, your suggestion is balance issue, not UI issue.

@Osinyagov

Since the introduction of MG42 Germans used as turret-MG ONLY the MG42 if available. The guns in the hull were still MG34 because of the way how to change the barrel, it wasn't possible to install MG42 there. Same for Hetzer, it had a MG34 because of maintenance and useing the MG.

If you want realism here, the Hetzer shouldn't have a visible gunner, because the weapon was served from INSIDE the tank. Only while reloading the gunner had to leave save position. Also it has to turn 360°. Very modern design.

PS: Also the late variant of StuG 3 Ausf. G had that kind of weapon + a coaxial-MG. We have a StuG 3 Ausf. F or a very early version of the G ingame. Maybe we can change the used name ingame to make it correct.

The differences:

Show Spoiler

In the russian text localization i fixed that with renaming PMD-6M into YaM-5 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/YaM-5_box_mine), but idk what to do with TM-35.
By the way, your suggestion is balance issue, not UI issue.

That could be a solution but in that case the YaM-5 mine would have to have a bigger blast than the TM-35. Why not just change the models and make the PMD-6M work like the okw mine?

@Osinyagov

Since the introduction of MG42 Germans used as turret-MG ONLY the MG42 if available. The guns in the hull were still MG34 because of the way how to change the barrel, it wasn't possible to install MG42 there. Same for Hetzer, it had a MG34 because of maintenance and useing the MG.

If you want realism here, the Hetzer shouldn't have a visible gunner, because the weapon was served from INSIDE the tank. Only while reloading the gunner had to leave save position. Also it has to turn 360°. Very modern design.

PS: Also the late variant of StuG 3 Ausf. G had that kind of weapon + a coaxial-MG. We have a StuG 3 Ausf. F or a very early version of the G ingame. Maybe we can change the used name ingame to make it correct.

The differences:

Show Spoiler

So, looks like warthunder devs using wrong sources for moddeling, cause all their german tanks have MG 34 as pintle MG. But still, pintle MG 34 model is much better, than pintle MG 42 model (because 1 to 1 model from 2006).

That could be a solution but in that case the YaM-5 mine would have to have a bigger blast than the TM-35. Why not just change the models and make the PMD-6M work like the okw mine?

Sorry, i am not responsible to saying something about mines, cause i don‘t know about them enough for smart discussion.

So, due to last public version of DBP was announced, this thread can be closed. All non-implemented changes from this thread will be moved to the general QoL thread! (idk when, it is need some time for edit so big post)

Thank you everybody for your help,ideas and support! Now let's wait for patch release!