Replay Feedback for December Balance Patch

A thread where you can post your replays featuring DBP mod, so our great Modders will have an easier work to track them down.

Lets keep this clear, thread is only for Uploading Replays and Discussions about those games.

Do not Derail or Shitbalance the thread

Hector

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  Hector

  Shadow Link

  Shock Frontline vs Ost

  by: __deleted__ map: Angoville

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  Shadow Link

  Hector

  Shock Frontline vs Ost Elite Troops - game 2

  by: __deleted__ map: Angoville

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The outcome is clear - ShadowlinkX is a worse player than me .

We played the same map, same positions same factions, each of us played once OST and ONCE Soviets. Doctrines were the same too.

Game was decided fairly early.

My thought about the game:

-garrisons are even more cancerous than before. Now "thanks" to garrison changes whoever has more close range firepower and more flames will dominate the ground around garrisons because everyone fears to enter the house

-vet2 conscript molotov is ridikulous. Giving Incendiary Nade (throwing speed) to squad with Oraaah for 15 munnition doesnt seem like a best idea.

-conscripts perform well, maybe too well against Ostheer. I have feeling that we are back in 2015 OCF Meta - praise with OST to survive Soviet early game rapetrain, gain vet and possibly win with Tiger if enemy makes some mistakes and doesnt have IS2. Shock value of conscripts into T70 seems to be too strong, only Flammen HT on semi-urban maps was able to stop it.

-Stun nade is too good/too retarded. 10/10 Panzergrens would use it again because it doesnt only shock shocks (oh the irony) but also shocked Pgrens

- Baiting T70s still works

- Merging conscript nades was a shock for me, didnt expect teched AT nades so fast. I think the merged fuel cost should go to 30 fuel becuase right now you arent punishing Soviets much for going early game vehicle in order to force him to tech nades and slow his tech.


I think thats it, games were fairly quick so no lategame armor.

Hector

PS: ShadowlinX plans to add his input as well

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  Hector

  Shadow Link

  Shock Frontline vs Ost

  by: __deleted__ map: Angoville

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  Shadow Link

  Hector

  Shock Frontline vs Ost Elite Troops - game 2

  by: __deleted__ map: Angoville

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Conscripts were very dominant in the early game vs grens in both games. Molotovs seem to be far too effective for synergies conscripts already have. I.e. oorah, 6 men, 15 munis, now merged with AT nade, and new vet 2 throw speed. Vet 2 throw speed is just under volks throw speed, however is at half the cost. Even had cons beating LMG grens from cover to cover in some cases.

Stun grenade is far too lethal for its effects. Immobilize for 5 seconds and no nerf to the 40 damage + short fuse.

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  Cyanara

  AtomicRocketeer

  [1v1][DBP v1.1] SU v WM

  by: Antemurale map: Kholodny Ferma

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  Cyanara

  AtomicRocketeer

  [1v1][DBP v1.1] USF v WM

  by: Antemurale map: Crossroads

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A few early thoughts,
- Squad AI and spacing is great
- T3 into T4 (and vice versa) is viable
- M4Cs is viable even when locked to tech
- DshK still strong, still very spammable
- Conscripts are viable again
- Molotovs (also, Incendiary Grenades) are really strong
- Volley Fire works
- Blobbing Riflemen is still viable
- Everyone thinks twice before getting in houses

Need more tests:
- WM Panther. I feel that it's bad if you are facing medium tank spam, but it seems strong against advanced medium tanks and medium tank destroyers.
- M36 Jackson. Definitely misses more shots now, failed to reliably penetrate Panther frontal armor multiple times, could be just bad RNG though.
- TWP. Activated it with PaK 40, but never successfully fired yet, perhaps it's a micro thing.

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  Kpen97 Glorious Famous Noob KrypticRTS

  AtomicRocketeer Hector

  DBP [2v2]USF+SU v WM+OKW

  by: Antemurale map: Trois Pont

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Intense 1 hours match on Trois Point.

4 very good players meet together to test new DBP and its effect on current balance. Here I my thoughts:

-CalliOP doesnt feel useless at all. With newly buffed Jackson it feels even better than before. It is no longer squadwipe machine like before but does its job very well. Buffed Jackson allows USF player to defend it better.

- Panthers arent weak at all. New Ostheer player with better RoF is (and more accesible tier4) is more useful. OKW Panther is more acquirable thanks to its 185 fuel cost. I like both of them.

- Arty spam is still a real thing, aint going to disappear any soon

- BARed vet3 Echelons with Volley fire blobs are a thing now

- Sturmtiger is a shit in hands of a player who doesnt know how to use it. Might be good in skilled player hands though.

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  Kpen97 Glorious Famous Noob KrypticRTS

  AtomicRocketeer Hector

  DBP [2v2]USF+SU v WM+OKW

  by: Antemurale map: Trois Pont

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- Arty spam is still a real thing, aint going to disappear any soon

Trois Point has that effect.

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  Hector

  ~Sober~

  [DBP] Demo is CANCER

  by: __deleted__ map: La Gleize Breakout

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This game proves 2 things

1) Dodging mollies in urban maps is now hardcore

2) Demo is a gardening cancer currently and need to be removed/changed. Right now you must play attention thorough whole match, only cap at VP circles, only go to garrison when you have already examined it with sweeper and once you make a mistake once you will pay greatly for it.

I have lost whole match at 10 minutes only because I have "blobbed" 2 Sturmpioneers together and stepped on a unlucky demo. And do not tell me he baited me and I should have played atention to it. That is not an excuse to lose 600 mp and 60 munnition for 1 demo (90 munny). Mines punish much more yet they are still very strong against infantry and tanks alike if you refuse to buy sweeper. Demo is a death without warning, mines are balanced.

Regarding demos, i was thinking the other day:

1-Demos are revealed visually at 10 range by any enemy unit.
2-Demos are not targetable unless a minesweeper is in range.
3-Remove death crit, reduce OTK zone but spread damage.

Demos as booby trap on garrison is fine. Same if use on cover or concealed behind objects. On the other hand, if they are in the middle of the road or in the open...Someone paying attention will avoid them.

Regarding demos, i was thinking the other day:

1-Demos are revealed visually at 10 range by any enemy unit.
2-Demos are not targetable unless a minesweeper is in range.
3-Remove death crit, reduce OTK zone but spread damage.

Demos as booby trap on garrison is fine. Same if use on cover or concealed behind objects. On the other hand, if they are in the middle of the road or in the open...Someone paying attention will avoid them.

Maybe make demos visible at range 10 if not in yellow or green cover, and targetable by anything that can see it. This would help with the worst abuses like demos in the open by a VP.

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  Kpen97 Glorious Famous Noob KrypticRTS

  AtomicRocketeer Hector

  DBP [2v2]USF+SU v WM+OKW

  by: Antemurale map: Trois Pont

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- Panthers arent weak at all. New Ostheer player with better RoF is (and more accesible tier4) is more useful. OKW Panther is more acquirable thanks to its 185 fuel cost. I like both of them.

I would say that Panthers are quite viable in both 1v1 and 2v2 now.

My question is, why would anyone go for a Panzer IV now?

Panther is more survivable, stronger against enemy tanks, and can deal reliable damage to infantry as long as it has its pintle MG42 upgrade.

For the OKW it is especially bad, because it costs only 35 more fuel, for the WM you have the option of going for Ostwind, Sturmpanzer, or Panzerwerfer for anti-infantry duty.

Therefore, I propose that we improve the Panzer IV by making it more affordable (perhaps 110FU for WM version, 125FU for OKW variant) on-par with Allied medium tank offerings. Otherwise, buff its performance so that it stands out against all the other armor the faction has to offer.

For the WM, I would propose a fuel cost decrease to 110FU or 120FU. This would make it more affordable in the light of a much more expensive (but better) Panther, also it would make T3 even more well defined as a Tier with less expensive armor options.

For the OKW, due to the fact that OKW T4 armor are primarily anti-tank, I would propose a hull MG and coaxial MG buff, so that it would be more effective against infantry (similar to how the T-34/76 and T-34/85 were buffed). Perhaps use the Sdfkz. 234/2 Puma's co-axial MG?

Maybe make demos visible at range 10 if not in yellow or green cover, and targetable by anything that can see it. This would help with the worst abuses like demos in the open by a VP.

I favor this change over elchino's, this would truly eliminate the option of planting demos in the open. It would also be much more interesting for the player to find ways to hide their demolitions.

Minesweepers would still be effective though, since they automatically detect them at 30 range, regardless of cover. LoS still applies though, so you can use them to punish garrisoning effectively.

I would say that Panthers are quite viable in both 1v1 and 2v2 now.

My question is, why would anyone go for a Panzer IV now?

Panther is more survivable, stronger against enemy tanks, and can deal reliable damage to infantry as long as it has its pintle MG42 upgrade.

For the OKW it is especially bad, because it costs only 35 more fuel, for the WM you have the option of going for Ostwind, Sturmpanzer, or Panzerwerfer for anti-infantry duty.

Therefore, I propose that we improve the Panzer IV by making it more affordable (perhaps 110FU for WM version, 125FU for OKW variant) on-par with Allied medium tank offerings. Otherwise, buff its performance so that it stands out against all the other armor the faction has to offer.

For the WM, I would propose a fuel cost decrease to 110FU or 120FU. This would make it more affordable in the light of a much more expensive (but better) Panther, also it would make T3 even more well defined as a Tier with less expensive armor options.

For the OKW, due to the fact that OKW T4 armor are primarily anti-tank, I would propose a hull MG and coaxial MG buff, so that it would be more effective against infantry (similar to how the T-34/76 and T-34/85 were buffed). Perhaps use the Sdfkz. 234/2 Puma's co-axial MG?

OKW Panzer4 is the best generalist medium tank, counters any medium tanks (except comet and easy 8 which cost even more) and literaly rapes infantry. The damage output against infantry between P4 and P5 is huge. I would chose panzer 4 when fighting USF blobs but would not chose P5

But I agree that it should cost 135 fuel once vet5 BS is gone.

I favor this change over elchino's, this would truly eliminate the option of planting demos in the open. It would also be much more interesting for the player to find ways to hide their demolitions.

Minesweepers would still be effective though, since they automatically detect them at 30 range, regardless of cover. LoS still applies though, so you can use them to punish garrisoning effectively.

The problem is that everywhere is a cover ATM. Even many strategic points have cover near them. Another fact is that after 20-30 minutes there is cover everywhere because of explosions. Doesnt seem like a good change for me.



Now Back to Topic, this thread is not for endless soap opera discussions

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  Zyswen

  Hector

  #Feedback

  by: __deleted__ map: Crossroads 1.1

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KruppSteed didnt make it. One t34/76 and one su85 wrecked my KT and P5 because my micro was pudiiing.

Some thoughts:

-Penals are still very strong, on par with Falls

-Cosnscripts are strong too, I actually fear conscript + penals blobs

-Repair speed changes are visible, KT is no longer magically repaired in mere of seconds

-Demos are cancer

-Abandon is cancer too

-Everything else seemed fine

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  Zyswen

  Hector

  #Feedback

  by: __deleted__ map: Crossroads 1.1

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the DBP is looks fine, but the pop in units still a cheesy think as u can see in this match. I hope relic keep this game alive

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  Zyswen

  Hector

  #Feedback no2

  by: __deleted__ map: Kholodny Ferma

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My thoughts:

-echelon only army can work right now, if I didnt lose my flaktrack and build AT gun sooner I could have won the match rather easily

-late game tank balance seems fine, panther surely does its job now thanks to a) being more accessible b) having better reload times

-infantry combat is too fast right now, units die like fleas on both sides currently

-USF at gun is actually good

-no one should understimate Pwerfer

-garrisons are fine, I like them



NOTE: Echelons are too expensive to reinforce, I think their reinforce cost should go down to 20 MP once you hit vet 3. After all they are 5 men squad for 200 mp, not 4 man squad anymore

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  Hector OrangePest juzubillaga KIMBO MAD SLICE

  KrypticRTS Kpen97 Glorious Famous Noob SexPistole Vipper

  Finally a 4V4 Game in DBP

  by: __deleted__ map: Steppes

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My thoughts:

- Conscript blobs with For Mother Russia are OP

- Allies seem to have a lategame advantage in higher gamemodes now, axis have change early on in open maps. In closed maps allies probably dominate whole game

- Ele is worth a shit now. Su85 clashed against it, always penned ele. Ele never hit Su85 and thus dealt no damage. Ele dies, Su85 survived. Might have been bad luck idk, but ele feels meh

- Ostheer sniper spam is completely annoying in 4v4.

- Allies simply have more cost effective and better tanks. T34 < Panzer, Su85 < Ele, Jacksons and Pershing < Panthers. KT just got flanked.

CONCLUSION: Axis will have a hard time in 4v4 this patch. Even though allies were losing greatly in the beggining of the match, they completely RoFl stomp axis lategame.


Others will add their thoughts as well

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  Hector OrangePest juzubillaga KIMBO MAD SLICE

  KrypticRTS Kpen97 Glorious Famous Noob SexPistole Vipper

  Finally a 4V4 Game in DBP

  by: __deleted__ map: Steppes

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My thoughts:

- Conscript blobs with For Mother Russia are OP

- Allies seem to have a lategame advantage in higher gamemodes now, axis have change early on in open maps. In closed maps allies probably dominate whole game

- Ele is worth a shit now. Su85 clashed against it, always penned ele. Ele never hit Su85 and thus dealt no damage. Ele dies, Su85 survived. Might have been bad luck idk, but ele feels meh

- Ostheer sniper spam is completely annoying in 4v4.

- Allies simply have more cost effective and better tanks. T34 < Panzer, Su85 < Ele, Jacksons and Pershing < Panthers. KT just got flanked.

CONCLUSION: Axis will have a hard time in 4v4 this patch. Even though allies were losing greatly in the beggining of the match, they completely RoFl stomp axis lategame.


Others will add their thoughts as well

The game does not count at all.
Axis made soo many mistakes. I mean skipping t1 on longrange map LUL. And only 1 okw.

There was no changes for su85 or Ele about Armor. Normally allies don't pen. So it was pure RNG.
But i agree the problem is to get a fair 4vs4 is very hard.
It was just unbalanced from the teams and gamestyle.

Ps. nice k/d and damage (you had everywhere the lowest^^)

So yes nice try but this game showes sadly nothing. I had yesterday a 4vs4 as well in DBP it was the same problem. Unfair teams .

The game does not count at all.
Axis made soo many mistakes. I mean skipping t1 on longrange map LUL. And only 1 okw.

There was no changes for su85 or Ele about Armor. Normally allies don't pen. So it was pure RNG.
But i agree the problem is to get a fair 4vs4 is very hard.
It was just unbalanced from the teams and gamestyle.

Ps. nice k/d and damage (you had everywhere the lowest^^)

So yes nice try but this game showes sadly nothing. I had yesterday a 4vs4 as well in DBP it was the same problem. Unfair teams .

Might be inbalance in teams but why they owned us early game and we owned them later on then ?

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  Zyswen

  Hector

  #Feedback no2

  by: __deleted__ map: Kholodny Ferma

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My thoughts:

-echelon only army can work right now, if I didnt lose my flaktrack and build AT gun sooner I could have won the match rather easily

-late game tank balance seems fine, panther surely does its job now thanks to a) being more accessible b) having better reload times

-infantry combat is too fast right now, units die like fleas on both sides currently

-USF at gun is actually good

-no one should understimate Pwerfer

-garrisons are fine, I like them



NOTE: Echelons are too expensive to reinforce, I think their reinforce cost should go down to 20 MP once you hit vet 3. After all they are 5 men squad for 200 mp, not 4 man squad anymore

good fight there, REs are fine i think rifle company will be another manner

The game does not count at all.

Number 1 reason providing replays doesn't seem to have a point.

I had yesterday a 4vs4 as well in DBP it was the same problem. Unfair teams .

Number 1 reason trying to balance 4v4s isn't going to end well.

CoH1 and CoH2 alike do not scale beyond 2v2s. Never have, and likely never will. Even 2v2s tend to not work out unless both teams are random or both are arranged.

Teamwork overwhelmingly influences more than unit, faction, or map design on those game modes.

And only 1 okw.

So 4v4 balance is decided completely on whether or not you have sufficient OKW teammates?

Time to abandon ostheer.