3rd Time Back... observations

In team games axis has a strong late game, not an OVERPOWERED one, theirs a difference. In the live game the only time axis have an advantage in lategame is when ther is an USF on the allies side but thats just because USF has a weak late game (both brits and soviets have good late games imo).

In team games axis has a strong late game, not an OVERPOWERED one, theirs a difference. In the live game the only time axis have an advantage in lategame is when ther is an USF on the allies side but thats just because USF has a weak late game (both brits and soviets have good late games imo).

Do you know when is the late game of a 4v4? I still remember last time I build a KT at 10 minute mark with my fd spamming fuel drop as ost. Then we win with an ease with the advantages of late game ironically. It is really easy to lock the controversial VP or resource point in 4v4 with OKW (Auto win first engagement strum) and ost camping turbo mortar + MG bunker spam.

In team games axis has a strong late game, not an OVERPOWERED one, theirs a difference. In the live game the only time axis have an advantage in lategame is when ther is an USF on the allies side but thats just because USF has a weak late game (both brits and soviets have good late games imo).

Ironically USF has a very weak early game in team game also. Try to imagine two USF players fighting on the same side.

Story 1: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build mortars and try to force the mg leave the house. Ost player build even more mortars to counter and out range USF players' mortars. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.


Story 2: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and find that the MG42 doesn't die then all the riflemen are pinned down. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2A: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. After that, USF players find that there is another MG42/ MG bunker that covering that building. However it is too late, all the riflemen get pinned immediately and lost heavily due to turbo mortars. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2B: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. Fortunately, there is no more MG behind MG. However there is a lot of volks behind sand bags and throwing a lot of flame nade into the smoke. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2C: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. Fortunately, there is no more MG behind MG. However there is a lot of volks behind sand bags but they doesn't throw any flame nade. Riflemen immediately enter the building that the MG occupied before and find that there is a strum ambushing them at the opposite side of the building with 0 range. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

You would ask, why don't they flank the MG from two different side? It's PORT OF HAMBURG!!

Do you know when is the late game of a 4v4? I still remember last time I build a KT at 10 minute mark with my fd spamming fuel drop as ost. Then we win with an ease with the advantages of late game ironically. It is really easy to lock the controversial VP or resource point in 4v4 with OKW (Auto win first engagement strum) and ost camping turbo mortar + MG bunker spam.

That is not working vs good allies.

But when in 4vs4 axis and allies hold half half 1 okw guy can rush for a min 20 Kt sadly yes

But come on guys that is nothing new to this game and also don't forget

--> we have for this the FBP aka now DBP !!


and as i already said: Map balance is a big factor as well in the balance for allies or axis.

Again
--> Wait for the DBP patch Maps got kicked out and reworked!

I thought i should come back in as the thread was not closed because i commented. But, given how far this thread has derailed i thought i would bring it back to this...




So, you are talking specifically about team games. 1v1 can be ignored. The fact that you have or have not gotten a certain rank in 1v1 is immaterial right now.

Automatching is a joke: Yes it is, and always will be because the community is small, but also because the higher up the ladder you get, the more competitive and try-hard your opponents will become.

Whats wrong with buildings? Which abilities are buggy? We are, rather uniquely, at the moment able to (as a community) directly change or fix any bugs in the game.

A huge amount in the game has changed, but not the essence of the game. If you want that to change then yes, you might well have to wait for Coh3.

Now here is the crux of it, you think Axis (as a whole it seems from this first post) is OP in team games. Axis, in team games, may well have an advantage sometimes. However, you are not asking for help to improve your play, or asking whether or not axis really are OP in team games, but in fact seem to be signalling your departure from the game. I am therefore reluctant to offer much in the way of advice or balance discussion as you might never play the game again, or, the advice will simply be thrown back in my face.

If you want advice on how to improve, ask nicely. If you just want a moan, and to vent your anger, please take it elsewhere.

Ok I have a question. Do you think the Pershing is priced right? Or should it cost slightly less or come out earlier, 11 or 12?

How do you deal with the Elephant and Jagd as the Pershing? When you come out the volks are already vet5, the Jagd can strike u down in 3 hits, and you'll be lucky to penetrate the thing at all. You have smoke drop but it's still really hard to flank and take down these big tanks on large open maps. I have had very little success with the Pershing of late

Ok I have a question. Do you think the Pershing is priced right? Or should it cost slightly less or come out earlier, 11 or 12?

How do you deal with the Elephant and Jagd as the Pershing? When you come out the volks are already vet5, the Jagd can strike u down in 3 hits, and you'll be lucky to penetrate the thing at all. You have smoke drop but it's still really hard to flank and take down these big tanks on large open maps. I have had very little success with the Pershing of late

Not that you asked me, but the pershing is priced right and has the right timing.

You deal with Elephants and Jagds with Pershings by not trying to confront them (go for the kill if they mess up though). Elephants and Jagds are tank destoyers. They destroy tanks and they are good at it. The pershing is an infantry wiper, so use it to wipe infantry (as in, its probably the second best vehicle and killing infantry).

Just buy Brits, get the buildings first, or in a building opposing their building. Then build motor/bofors while your Soviet teamamate throws all his penals away doing stupid stuff, but you still win the game because you have firebreathing mobile bank vaults called Churchills which nothing will penetrate, and a number of "oops, I forgot to build AT" call-in abilities useful against tanks and an entire commander to counter to arty Axis noobs build to kill your bofors/mortar.

Not that you asked me, but the pershing is priced right and has the right timing.

You deal with Elephants and Jagds with Pershings by not trying to confront them (go for the kill if they mess up though). Elephants and Jagds are tank destoyers. They destroy tanks and they are good at it. The pershing is an infantry wiper, so use it to wipe infantry (as in, its probably the second best vehicle and killing infantry).

So in other words there are no USF tanks to take these on but one? That's what I've experienced, only the Jackson can do anything, but you have to spam it. But they will dispose of your Jacksons too if you don't micro the hell out of them

Just buy Brits, get the buildings first, or in a building opposing their building. Then build motor/bofors while your Soviet teamamate throws all his penals away doing stupid stuff, but you still win the game because you have firebreathing mobile bank vaults called Churchills which nothing will penetrate, and a number of "oops, I forgot to build AT" call-in abilities useful against tanks and an entire commander to counter to arty Axis noobs build to kill your bofors/mortar.

What armor do churchills have? I thought the Panther still had better at 375

So in other words there are no USF tanks to take these on but one? That's what I've experienced, only the Jackson can do anything, but you have to spam it. But they will dispose of your Jacksons too if you don't micro the hell out of them

You said "as the pershing," so I only answered what you do with the pershing against them. You could also just have HE shermans and drive those around wiping stuff similar to what i said regarding the pershing.

Now as far as tanks go, you are right, Ally tanks can do ok against infantry, but I think that armor is the key to winning the game, and allied tanks can't hang late game. Almost all Axis infantry are equiped to deal with light tanks and medium tanks. Seeing as these tanks are paper, the axis tanks just need a shot or 2 to end them. Either you push hard and fast early as Allies, or you end up losing the late game.

This might be why you're seeing axis being powerful late game. Allies can't (realistically) do a tank all-in and win, it just doesn't work. Like you said, axis will have a ton of AT squads, AT guns and AT-tanks that will simply wipe all the tanks very, very quickly.

What is needed is combined arms. As I was saying earlier, allied infantry is (mostly) much better vs. other infantry than their axis counterparts; this is key. PGrens with shreks will only have 2 STGs per squad, Sturms are pretty weak, and all axis weapon crews are small (3-4 man AT). Combined with poor AI power from their tanks, it means you have a massive advantage with your infantry.

Push with the double-upgraded squad of your choice (preferably with vet), and support it with some tanks. If you run into AT, your infantry will get rid of it very quickly. If you run into AI, your tanks can actually handle that very well. The only thing you need to fear is heavy AT (Panther, Tiger, KT, JT, Ele, etc.), but without infantry support, those are incredibly fragile and slow. You can even use your faster tanks to block the slower heavies (get behind them and hit 'stop') making them very easy to take out.

When I play axis (Mostly OKW, because OST is insanely hard right now), I rarely get many heavies for this reason. I usually get P4s (get rid of said double-upgraded infantry) supported by rakettens and shrecks. Probably the strongest AT I usually get is a single JP4.

2) Top 400 RANDOM in 4vs4 does not mean the same: Reason: Too often the matchmaking is fail or your randommates bugsplit or ragequit or leave in the first mins... So its kind of a lottery. It can but not have to mean: you are not that good.

I wouldn't say "kind of"; it's absolutely random. I've gone from top 40 OKW 4v4 to ~900 based purely on bad match ups, people quitting, people DC'ing, etc. Some days are good, some are bad. Don't take 3v3 or 4v4 very seriously.

This might be why you're seeing axis being powerful late game. Allies can't (realistically) do a tank all-in and win, it just doesn't work. Like you said, axis will have a ton of AT squads, AT guns and AT-tanks that will simply wipe all the tanks very, very quickly.

What is needed is combined arms. As I was saying earlier, allied infantry is (mostly) much better vs. other infantry than their axis counterparts; this is key. PGrens with shreks will only have 2 STGs per squad, Sturms are pretty weak, and all axis weapon crews are small (3-4 man AT). Combined with poor AI power from their tanks, it means you have a massive advantage with your infantry.

Push with the double-upgraded squad of your choice (preferably with vet), and support it with some tanks. If you run into AT, your infantry will get rid of it very quickly. If you run into AI, your tanks can actually handle that very well. The only thing you need to fear is heavy AT (Panther, Tiger, KT, JT, Ele, etc.), but without infantry support, those are incredibly fragile and slow. You can even use your faster tanks to block the slower heavies (get behind them and hit 'stop') making them very easy to take out.

When I play axis (Mostly OKW, because OST is insanely hard right now), I rarely get many heavies for this reason. I usually get P4s (get rid of said double-upgraded infantry) supported by rakettens and shrecks. Probably the strongest AT I usually get is a single JP4.



I wouldn't say "kind of"; it's absolutely random. I've gone from top 40 OKW 4v4 to ~900 based purely on bad match ups, people quitting, people DC'ing, etc. Some days are good, some are bad. Don't take 3v3 or 4v4 very seriously.

I've been experimenting as usf going all in on infantry with a howitzer and 57mm and I've had mix success. Haven't played in 4v4 or 3v3 yet but haven't gotten smashed using this build yet. I do find it succesfuly against most axis tanks, you have stugs or a panther congrats I don't care because their crap against inf.

Ironically USF has a very weak early game in team game also. Try to imagine two USF players fighting on the same side.

Stories

Or you can pick-up Riflemen doctrine, build 2xRE and use one or dual flamethrower.

So in other words there are no USF tanks to take these on but one? That's what I've experienced, only the Jackson can do anything, but you have to spam it. But they will dispose of your Jacksons too if you don't micro the hell out of them

Lol no, don't build Jackson to counter Jagt or Elef, build 4 / 5 shermans divided in two groups, infantry in the middle and flank with the Shermans, make sure you have around 100 munitions in bank to use smoke.

Ok I have a question. Do you think the Pershing is priced right? Or should it cost slightly less or come out earlier, 11 or 12?

How do you deal with the Elephant and Jagd as the Pershing? When you come out the volks are already vet5, the Jagd can strike u down in 3 hits, and you'll be lucky to penetrate the thing at all. You have smoke drop but it's still really hard to flank and take down these big tanks on large open maps. I have had very little success with the Pershing of late

I do think the Pershing is priced correctly and i do think it comes at the right time. Take in mind that this unit has to be balanced for all games modes. Even so, the unit is a heavy tank, in essence, its a beefed up generalist medium. That means it can fight literally anything and everything effectively, if used correctly.

Specialist tanks like the Ostwind or, the Elephant are very good at doing one thing and bad at all else. So your two examples are the two most powerful anti-tank tanks in the game. They cost a lot in manpower, fuel and popcap, they are slow and bad at killing infantry. That is their trade off.

The Pershing is bad at nothing, in fact, its very good at most things, BUT it will never beat a Elephant or a Jagdtiger in a head to head 1v1 fight.

Or you can pick-up Riflemen doctrine, build 2xRE and use one or dual flamethrower.



Lol no, don't build Jackson to counter Jagt or Elef, build 4 / 5 shermans divided in two groups, infantry in the middle and flank with the Shermans, make sure you have around 100 munitions in bank to use smoke.

That's stupid. Forced to go into a doctrine just for having a CHANCE to win the early game in team game is serious design fault. That need to be fixed for sure.

That's stupid. Forced to go into a doctrine just for having a CHANCE to win the early game in team game is serious design fault. That need to be fixed for sure.

All games have a meta dude, if that's the most effective thing to do to solve your problem in 3v3/4v4, then do it. There have been useless commanders since day 1, but really when they released it there were more viable ones (I was a Joint Ops fan for a long time, lol.)

That's stupid. Forced to go into a doctrine just for having a CHANCE to win the early game in team game is serious design fault. That need to be fixed for sure.

Yes I agree, but it is not going to be fixed anytime soon. So on the meantime, use it.

Or you can pick-up Riflemen doctrine, build 2xRE and use one or dual flamethrower.

Or, go for mechanized doctrine and use Rifleman on WC51 to harass the opponent. OKW has weak early AT.

Lol no, don't build Jackson to counter Jagt or Elef, build 4 / 5 shermans divided in two groups, infantry in the middle and flank with the Shermans, make sure you have around 100 munitions in bank to use smoke.

Since the complain is about team game, this is bad advise though. Any half-brained axis player would put two or more atgun/at infantry behind to cover the elefant, and waits for USF tank to move into killzone.

You can argue smoke, but smoke does not cover every directions, and it work both ways. It will, however, at least allow USF player to retreat from killzone, but with casualty.

The best thing USF can do is use calliope to clear out these atgun. But unfortunately, calliope is locked behind commander...

All games have a meta dude, if that's the most effective thing to do to solve your problem in 3v3/4v4, then do it. There have been useless commanders since day 1, but really when they released it there were more viable ones (I was a Joint Ops fan for a long time, lol.)

No way. USF should receive some special care like sudden flame nade from Relic to deal with garrisoned troops. You simply can't answer why OKW players must have that kind of special care but USF player must stick to doctrine. And it is not even an effective thing to solve the problem but just an opportunity to have some kind of fair battle after choosing the one and only commander with early garrisoned clear option.

Ironically USF has a very weak early game in team game also. Try to imagine two USF players fighting on the same side.

Story 1: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build mortars and try to force the mg leave the house. Ost player build even more mortars to counter and out range USF players' mortars. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.


Story 2: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and find that the MG42 doesn't die then all the riflemen are pinned down. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2A: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. After that, USF players find that there is another MG42/ MG bunker that covering that building. However it is too late, all the riflemen get pinned immediately and lost heavily due to turbo mortars. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2B: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. Fortunately, there is no more MG behind MG. However there is a lot of volks behind sand bags and throwing a lot of flame nade into the smoke. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

Story 2C: Strum occupy the house in the controversial point. Rear echelons have nothing can do. Ost player's MG42 enter into the house. USF players build a lot of riflemen and try to smoke the area. USF players reach the building and throw two grenade into the building with a total of 60 munitions which can buy a more useful flamethrower if it was SU and finally successfully force the mg leave the house after wasting 60 munition. Fortunately, there is no more MG behind MG. However there is a lot of volks behind sand bags but they doesn't throw any flame nade. Riflemen immediately enter the building that the MG occupied before and find that there is a strum ambushing them at the opposite side of the building with 0 range. Early game is done. No fuel point for USF players in team game.

You would ask, why don't they flank the MG from two different side? It's PORT OF HAMBURG!!

Or you can just get to the house first.

Or just build the cheap fighting position (behind a shot blocker is nice too) and just use the free grenades you can reload cancel to clear the building.