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December Balance Preview

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jagd wölfe
20 Nov 2017, 15:52 PM
#821
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Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 15:45 PMOutsider_Sidaroth


What about Soviet Infantry that usually have slots to spare?
You trade potential of double upgrade that requires more cost for a safe upgrade that is good at all ranges and can never be lost unless the entire squad is wiped out.
Assymetrical Balance.


Bar and brens ARE good at all ranges.
Hell, stg at long rangeis barely different from kar..bar has 5 dps points...

Soviet infantry is dirty cheap, 20 mp to reinforce a 6 men squad, and is getting a buff...give them dropped mg34 and you have got the freaking t1000 squad.
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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__deleted__
20 Nov 2017, 17:36 PM
#822
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Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 15:52 PMjagd wölfe


Bar and brens ARE good at all ranges.
Hell, stg at long rangeis barely different from kar..bar has 5 dps points...

Soviet infantry is dirty cheap, 20 mp to reinforce a 6 men squad, and is getting a buff...give them dropped mg34 and you have got the freaking t1000 squad.


Dirty cheap ? Conscripts cost is the same as Grenadier cost.
Volksgrenadiers cost only 10 mp more (are ~5% more expensive).

Do you really find soviet infantry dirty cheap ?
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LimaOscarMike
20 Nov 2017, 17:45 PM
#823
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

any engineer squad will attemp to put a mine on top of demo and blow themself if we haven't pay attention now right ?
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__deleted__
20 Nov 2017, 17:46 PM
#824
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 17:45 PMLimaOscarMike
any engineer squad will attemp to put a mine on top of demo and blow themself if we haven't pay attention now right ?


According to my last conversation with Mr.Smith, engineers will not try to defuse demos in 1v5 anymore, so they wont blow themselves up :)
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ZombiFrancis
20 Nov 2017, 18:04 PM
#825
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 17:36 PM__deleted__


Dirty cheap ? Conscripts cost is the same as Grenadier cost.
Volksgrenadiers cost only 10 mp more (are ~5% more expensive).

Do you really find soviet infantry dirty cheap ?


Based on what he wrote, their reinforce costs are indeed cheap. Initial cost is one thing, time and cost of reinforcing is a whole other thing.

Volks I'd say are comparably cheap, though.
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__deleted__
20 Nov 2017, 18:04 PM
#826
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Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 18:04 PMZombiFrancis


Based on what he wrote, their reinforce costs are indeed cheap. Initial cost is one thing, time and cost of reinforcing is a whole other thing.

Volks I'd say are comparably cheap, though.


And grens are too

30*4 = 20 * 6 = 120 mp reinforcement cost :)
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ZombiFrancis
20 Nov 2017, 18:20 PM
#827
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Well, you can never reinforce 4 grens or 6 cons. A 1 man squad is 90 for grens and 100 for cons.

But the thing to keep in mind is that a retreating or reinforcing squad isn't always at the lowest survivable entity.

For grens that 30mp per entity adds up when you need to keep every model alive to maintain field presence.

Cons, well, there are certainly more models in the squad, but I don't find that they're often bled down to 1 entity. Regardless, the sheer amount more damage cons can absorb per squad really starts to pay off in terms of field presence.

In a way, it's 30 mp for 80 health for grens. 20 per 80 health of cons. That adds up over time, all things considered.

Volks sort of split the difference.
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jagd wölfe
20 Nov 2017, 19:08 PM
#828
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 17:36 PM__deleted__


Dirty cheap ? Conscripts cost is the same as Grenadier cost.
Volksgrenadiers cost only 10 mp more (are ~5% more expensive).

Do you really find soviet infantry dirty cheap ?

Of course it is, what infantry can be reinforced for 20 mp ?

But of course, pick one time paid cost...makes sense ^~^

@ZombieFrancis +1 exactly
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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CobaltX105
21 Nov 2017, 01:05 AM
#829
avatar of CobaltX105

Posts: 87

@Mr.Smith, are there any chances of the Pack-Up ability appearing in the DBP? For reasons that chocoboknight has stated, it'd be a major improvement to the current perma-emplacement spam type deal if we could just move them.

Or if you're Axis, and you chance an offensive while your Brit opponent is getting ready to move? Boom, goodbye pesky Bofors/Mortar/17 Pounder.
Something, something something, something.

There, done.
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some one
21 Nov 2017, 01:16 AM
#830
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

M36 Jackson Tank Destroyer
To improve the Jackson's tank hunter capabilities

Yeah TD that afraid of p4 dive.

Try dive vs Jp4 or Stug.
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Mr.Smith
21 Nov 2017, 01:20 AM
#831
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:05 AMCobaltX105
@Mr.Smith, are there any chances of the Pack-Up ability appearing in the DBP? For reasons that chocoboknight has stated, it'd be a major improvement to the current perma-emplacement spam type deal if we could just move them.

Or if you're Axis, and you chance an offensive while your Brit opponent is getting ready to move? Boom, goodbye pesky Bofors/Mortar/17 Pounder.


I think that would be too drastic to go in one go, with all the British core faction changes and commander changes.

If pack-up ever makes it this patch, it would probably be only to suicide your emplacements, but with no refund.
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miragefla
21 Nov 2017, 01:26 AM
#832
avatar of miragefla
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Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:16 AMsome one
M36 Jackson Tank Destroyer
To improve the Jackson's tank hunter capabilities

Yeah TD that afraid of p4 dive.

Try dive vs Jp4 or Stug.


Use the reverse button, I hear it helps for the fastest 640hp TD in the game whose main attributes are accuracy on the move, acceleration and speed. The thing has never has been meant to demolish medium tanks super quickly since its damage got dropped from 240 to 200 ages ago. If you really want something dead, use HVAP which still retains the higher damage of days bygone.

Diving the other two means not being in front of them.

A PIV can also beat a stock Firefly if they both started at range 40 because it shoots faster.
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CobaltX105
21 Nov 2017, 01:39 AM
#833
avatar of CobaltX105

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:20 AMMr.Smith


I think that would be too drastic to go in one go, with all the British core faction changes and commander changes.

If pack-up ever makes it this patch, it would probably be only to suicide your emplacements, but with no refund.

Talk about a quick response!

That's unfortunate, but I think it's still worth a try to see what people think. Already have to let your emplacements be killed, but at least with suicidal PU Brit players could deny their opponents XP on their own terms.
Something, something something, something.

There, done.
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Teia Rabishu
21 Nov 2017, 01:50 AM
#834
avatar of Teia Rabishu

Posts: 12

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:20 AMMr.Smith
If pack-up ever makes it this patch, it would probably be only to suicide your emplacements, but with no refund.


Couldn't even give a partial refund like that one USF doctrinal ability?
First Law of OKW: In any game containing an OKW player, eventually all players will come to control a raketenwerfer.

Second Law of OKW: While the raketenwerfer is not the best Allied AT gun, it will always be the most common one.
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insaneHoshi
21 Nov 2017, 04:31 AM
#835
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 15:45 PMOutsider_Sidaroth
good at all ranges.


Please define "good at all ranges" because if you mean it increases dps at all ranges, that's true for all weapon upgrades bar pssh and thomsons. The only advantage that the STG is that you get two for one.

For the record there is 0 practical dps increase at far ranges for the STG, where DPS is the most important.
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insaneHoshi
21 Nov 2017, 04:35 AM
#836
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2017, 17:36 PM__deleted__


Dirty cheap ? Conscripts cost is the same as Grenadier cost.
Volksgrenadiers cost only 10 mp more (are ~5% more expensive).

Do you really find soviet infantry dirty cheap ?


When someone says cons are cheap they refer to two factors, one the initial cost and two the reinforce cost. Despite Grens costing the same as cons up front, grens have a higher bleed (and lower model count necessitating more rebuilding).

I mean this was why Volks vs Penials were so Imba cost wise. For 50 mp more you get a squad with 6 men, that does more damage model by model and has the same reinforcement cost of the volk.
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Selvy289
21 Nov 2017, 04:52 AM
#837
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

I do think conscripts can probably have their reinforcements cost increased to 22.

I would be more inclined with any adjustments once panzefusiliers and obstuppen can only pick up 1 weapon.

I mean come on, Combat engineer's cost 21 to reinforce and (besides mines and flame thrower) their only true shinning ability is being neft.

Perhaps increase conscripts reinforment to 22.5 instead?

P.s I know this breaks the gren and conscripts reinforcement cost now but considering their performance increase and the other faction units have been neft (volks especially). They warrant a small cost increase.

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Outsider_Sidaroth
21 Nov 2017, 05:49 AM
#838
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 04:31 AMinsaneHoshi


Please define "good at all ranges" because if you mean it increases dps at all ranges, that's true for all weapon upgrades bar pssh and thomsons. The only advantage that the STG is that you get two for one.

For the record there is 0 practical dps increase at far ranges for the STG, where DPS is the most important.


Volks already beat Riflemen at long range assuming equal cover, they still still do so with STGs, Riflemen with more investment and max vet do beat Volks. But for a long period of time the Volks can hold their own and punch way above their weight cost wise, come lategame OKW will have Tanks which USF struggles to deal with unless they have a fuel lead, which is hard to do with OKW meta wiping USF of the map in the early game. Early game where USF is supposed to be strong, it just happens OKW is stronger and has better lategame, that's the problem with the OKW vs USF matchup, it's just as lot of things bundled up into one big sack of bullshit.
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insaneHoshi
21 Nov 2017, 06:25 AM
#839
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 05:49 AMOutsider_Sidaroth


Volks already beat Riflemen at long range assuming equal cover,


No they don't. Doing .05 more DPS at long range does not give or allow volks to beat riflemen at long range reliably.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 05:49 AMOutsider_Sidaroth


Riflemen with more investment and max vet do beat Volks.


You mean equal investment, a single BAR does a good deal more long range damage (4.43 v 1.9) and more damage than a STG at close ( 10.78 v 7.58). Even accounting for Double STGs vs 1 bar and 1 m1 garand we still have STG at 15.16/3.82 vs 15.16/6.13. So sure the volks might be able to win if they can somehow teleport to close range.

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insaneHoshi
21 Nov 2017, 06:33 AM
#840
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:26 AMmiragefla


Use the reverse button, I hear it helps for the fastest 640hp TD in the game whose main attributes are accuracy on the move, acceleration and speed.


If anyone is playing this game without rebinding reverse to somewhere closer to wasd they are playing this game wrong.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2017, 01:26 AMmiragefla

A PIV can also beat a stock Firefly if they both started at range 40 because it shoots faster.


If the firefly sits still that is.
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