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Langreskaya cap distances

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The Dave
6 Aug 2013, 15:23 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 15:10 PMUGBEAR
Rzhev summer, most horrible map of its time.


South spawn on Rhzev summer is completely favorable. Check the VP positions in respect to the choke points and bridges.

The South has clear mobility to cap and camp on the VPs while the north spawn has to cross water and narrow paths.

Why relic would think that "water", frozen or not, is something that should be placed on their maps and limit mobility is astounding and a testament to their lack of vision for an open and fluid game. Apparently they enjoy Scheldt and Vire River Valley just as much as the morons in public lobbies from Vcoh.
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pqumsieh
Only Relic postRelic
6 Aug 2013, 17:10 PM
#22
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First off, keep in mind you have to look at pathing distance rather than a straight line from the HQ to the point. This changes the values considerably in a number of circumstances.

We've verified that one or two points have a bit too much deviation in them, this will be corrected in a future patch. However, these deviations are too minor to have any major impact on the balance of the map.
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VonBlade
6 Aug 2013, 17:38 PM
#23
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 15:23 PMThe Dave

Apparently they enjoy Scheldt and Vire River Valley just as much as the morons in public lobbies from Vcoh.


It's a mentality thing. To those of us who aren't confident in our rushing abilities, or perhaps prefer to blunt the attack and then counter, such maps are more enjoyable than swathes of nothingness.

So just because we like a different map type doesn't make us morons. I happen to like a choke point.
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The Dave
6 Aug 2013, 17:40 PM
#24
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That's fine but I shouldn't be forced to play that.

And don't get me wrong, choke points are fine and all but when one side has free access to setting up at those choke points and forcing the other side to cross into them to take a VP (because those are the objectives of the game) the game becomes more about which side you spawn on and not how good you are at it. The game also becomes about how much arty and long range weaponry you can amass and let me reassure you, the axis side loses that battle.
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VonBlade
6 Aug 2013, 18:00 PM
#25
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Absolutely. I wasn't taking issue with the problem of placement, merely the label of moron to anyone who does enjoy some terrain.
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WiFiDi
6 Aug 2013, 18:13 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 17:10 PMpqumsieh
First off, keep in mind you have to look at pathing distance rather than a straight line from the HQ to the point. This changes the values considerably in a number of circumstances.


what he said ^
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Swiftwin
6 Aug 2013, 18:17 PM
#27
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There's a big berm on the south that makes the pathing much longer than it looks.
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DanielD
6 Aug 2013, 18:37 PM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 15:23 PMThe Dave


South spawn on Rhzev summer is completely favorable. Check the VP positions in respect to the choke points and bridges.

The South has clear mobility to cap and camp on the VPs while the north spawn has to cross water and narrow paths.

Why relic would think that "water", frozen or not, is something that should be placed on their maps and limit mobility is astounding and a testament to their lack of vision for an open and fluid game. Apparently they enjoy Scheldt and Vire River Valley just as much as the morons in public lobbies from Vcoh.


The maps would get repetitive rather quickly if the developers had your "vision"... and just because someone wants a relaxing game, it doesn't make them a moron. Your main point is correct however.


South Langres had an advantage too and I don't think it was just the distance of the closest five resource points to the HQ.
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The Dave
6 Aug 2013, 18:50 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 18:37 PMDanielD


The maps would get repetitive rather quickly if the developers had your "vision"... and just because someone wants a relaxing game, it doesn't make them a moron. Your main point is correct however.


South Langres had an advantage too and I don't think it was just the distance of the closest five resource points to the HQ.


It's actually not relaxing to sit there and be artied over and over again...so no.

It may be fun for the guy sitting there with Soviet artillery (120 mm mortars, SU76s, ATguns, katyuskas, on map arty) and SU85s+snipers but for the opposition it certainly is not.
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Basilone
6 Aug 2013, 19:31 PM
#30
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South Langres is better than north for Germans, but not because of the resource distribution (in COH1 the high muni favored the bottom, but that is irrelevant now since there is a second high muni). The north is harder because of the building right outside the base that makes flanking and stalling much easier.
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Doomlord52
6 Aug 2013, 19:38 PM
#31
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I think what we should be discussing is how the thick-snow on the winter version makes South-Lang nearly impossible to play as Russians....


IMO summer is favorable to the North player, simply because of the hedge-row south of the middle VP. The German MG can simply lock down that area incredibly easily.
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Cyridius
6 Aug 2013, 20:31 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 19:38 PMDoomlord52
I think what we should be discussing is how the thick-snow on the winter version makes South-Lang nearly impossible to play as Russians....


IMO summer is favorable to the North player, simply because of the hedge-row south of the middle VP. The German MG can simply lock down that area incredibly easily.


It's also good for the south side because you can park your MG in there and they have to walk around the hedgerow to flank it. Which takes a long time.
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raw
7 Aug 2013, 07:58 AM
#33
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Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2013, 14:48 PMCyridius

Top is closer to their fuel,


The problem with top fuel is that it is very easy for bottom to just go up there and counter cap it. Since bottom will be hugging the left side of the map, going to bottom fuel as top is like invading Berlin.


and their munitions point is less out of the way.


It's also the primary killing fields of this map. This ammo point is probably the point with the single-most switches.

If you compare Langreskaya to Langres, you'll see that the old map has a much more equal flow for both sides and requires both sides to advance and defend a 180 degree arc. On Langreskaya this is only true for top, bottom can just pile up everything on the left side. The actual pathing from HQ to the cap points is a very minor factor, the question is how the layout factors into important things like "supportability", "distance between cap points", "ability to keep your units together ", "coverage" and there bottom is much better than top.
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Porygon
7 Aug 2013, 11:04 AM
#34
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I prefer top because it is easier to defend against flanking

but opposite in Langres because of :) +16 munition :)
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MadrRasha
7 Aug 2013, 11:45 AM
#35
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Posts: 252

i also prefer top on langres cuz (from practice in vcoh) capping is much more fluid for me, easier to def against flank as Porygoon said and your troops are mostly togheter and you concentrate pushing thru mid and takin manpower point that is left from South Starting position cutting of the fuel
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