Westwall by Lord Rommel

Hey guys, im here again looking for support, i think this map needs some changes, it has almost the same issues than the other maps but worse, it has 2 full health brick buildings near the cutoffs producing insta wins for the persons that rush the cutoffs, making them almost impossible to clear because of the red cover roads that are outside the house. Not only that but allows OKW to put a battlegroup near the building and camp there with the isgs and the other beautiful elements that okw has. The other problem it has in my opionion are the dragon theets, it looks beautiful but it creates horrible pathing issues for vehicles limiting their movement and scape routes. Other issue is the elevations, often shells impact the floor, i have this issue in other maps but not as in this one. I've already had a discussion with the map maker but he seems to not understand what kind of issues im talking about because aparently he doesnt play 1v1 and the game too often anymore, what do you think guys? It needs to be changed? Any other issues that i didnt mention?

Here is the pòst in the official forum: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244174/we-need-more-vetoes-westwall-balance-issues

Later

Then we have a problem there, these maps issues are clearly from someone who doesnt play the game, it is ok that you like mapping and such but please think in the other players that actually like playing the game, next time please dont submit a map that is going to be in the map rotation.

I dont know what game mode do you play, but almost every decen player in 1v1 will agree that buildings on vetoes = no bueno

As you can see my opinions are suported by top players like Luvnest, HelpingHans, VonIvan, that we almost agree with everything on how a map needs to be designed.

You don't need to be a good player (or even average) to make good maps, void point there. Tbh you should go apologize for that comment. Also some of the best maps there are (Angoville for example) have buildings next to or near cutoffs, there is no such golden rule against it, its just something to be considered in the context of the entire map. Finally just because someone like Luvnest agreed with your feedback one time is not a trump card for winning every future coh2 debate.

You don't need to be a good player (or even average) to make good maps, void point there. Tbh you should go apologize for that comment. Also some of the best maps there are (Angoville for example) have buildings next to or near cutoffs, there is no such golden rule against it, its just something to be considered in the context of the entire map. Finally just because someone like Luvnest agreed with your feedback one time is not a trump card for winning every future coh2 debate.

Angoville a good map???? Playercard please

Oh, and you dont need to be a good player but you have to play the game to comprehend some concepts And of course, Luvnest opinion has 0 value

Luvnest agreeing with you on another topic does not carry over. And yes Angoville is a good map. I'm not saying the map doesn't suck because I never played it, but most of your arguments were poor.

Luvnest agreeing with you on another topic does not carry over. And yes Angoville is a good map. I'm not saying the map doesn't suck because I never played it, but most of your arguments were poor.

Yeah, if they are poor why almost everyone agreed on the poll in the previous post? Not only the top players, im just trying to help to balance the game. Those are well known balance isues and almost every 1v1 player agrees with them. And not, Angoville is not a good map in terms of balance, its a good looking map but if i could veto it i would do it and why it wasnt in the map poll for the gcs tourney if it is a good map?

Still waiting the playercard btw

Yeah, if they are poor why almost everyone agreed on the poll in the previous post? Not only the top players, im just trying to help to balance the game. Those are well known balance isues and almost every 1v1 player agrees with them. And not, Angoville is not a good map in terms of balance, its a good looking map but if i could veto it i would do it and why it wasnt in the map poll for the gcs tourney if it is a good map?

Still waiting the playercard btw

Angoville was fantastic for COH1 and still good for vanilla COH2 factions before WFA. I haven't played the map very many times since the new factions came out, but if new problems arose on a staple map its the fault of the factions. Now if you were only saying that the brick house by the cutoff was too powerful of a building type that might be a decent point, but you took it a step further and said that putting a building near a cutoff automatically breaks a map, which is not true.

The "playercard" stuff is a childish request btw. It would be like if an old timer said 1v1 me COH1. Good points are good and bad ones are bad, having a certain ladder rank does not bolster a weak argument...but if you really must know I've been top 30 1v1/2v2 when I played a lot.

Angoville was fantastic for COH1 and still good for vanilla COH2 factions before WFA. I haven't played the map very many times since the new factions came out, but if new problems arose on a staple map its the fault of the factions. Now if you were only saying that the brick house by the cutoff was too powerful of a building type that might be a decent point, but you took it a step further and said that putting a building near a cutoff automatically breaks a map, which is not true.

The "playercard" stuff is a childish request btw. It would be like if an old timer said 1v1 me COH1. Good points are good and bad ones are bad, having a certain ladder rank does not bolster a weak argument...but if you really must know I've been top 30 1v1/2v2 when I played a lot.

If you dont play the game you dont comprehend how frustrating is playing against this, taking the building in the early game is a insta win, it is really hard to clear the house no matter what faction you use, the guy who gets those buildings first, wins. Its more than near, i dont know the english word to describe it, it is literally almost inside the cutoff and it is not a small brick house, it is a big one and you cant get close to it because there are roads with red cover sorounding them and add also that they are outside the door of the base

Because Luciano got rank 17 with EZ faction now he is map expert?

Sounds like L2P issue!

Because Luciano got rank 17 with EZ faction now he is map expert?

Sounds like L2P issue!

Ostheer rank 17 and usf rank 19 are easy faction?

But my ranks doesnt mean that im a good player, it means that i play the game a lot and i think i have basic knowledge on how map distribution needs to be

This picture clearly highlights the issues this map has with cutoffs.

- Multiple brick houses with 5 - 6 windows on approaching side.
- There are actually more windows facing towards the base than away from the base.
- Excessive use of red cover.
- The house on 2nd cutoff is in awkward position and forces units over red cover to take it.



This pic shows house with no windows on one side. This house is useless for trying to push out from base but excellent for attacking base.

The fact of the matter is, if you loose the second cutoff and allow your opponent to take those houses then it is almost certainly gg. Virtually all other 1v1 maps are easier to push back out.

The position of this house is wrong. There is no cover on approach, only red cover.

Consider other 1v1 maps and the placement of houses and the use of red, green and yellow cover. At the very least the house should be behind the vp not in front.

Ah West Wall, I thought you were discussing another map. Yes, West Wall is trash. I veto 100% of the time. Most of these new maps are trash.

That is the western cutoff, the building lays on the side


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This is a view from the building of the eastern cutoff, that is the exit of the base


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Those are the dragon theets, you can only pass trough the holes that the wall has, not only that but that elevation creates blockers for the shells, that line extends through all the middle of the map


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A better view of the eastern cuttoff


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Hey guys, im here again looking for support, i think this map needs some changes

What changes would you suggest?

What changes would you suggest?

Remove the dragontheets, nivelate the floor to the same level, remove the red cover roads outside the base and remove the cutoff buildings

I can't comment on any of the issues you brought up, but I have another issue with the map. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I feel that too much of the map has super long sight lines. I think this map feels really imbalanced in some matchups because of how this favors long range infantry and machine guns. Factions that have the best HMGs are put at an advantage, while factions that have lacking HMGs are put at a disadvantage - so much so that the team with the worse MGs or worse defensive options feels helpless.

Remove the dragontheets, nivelate the floor to the same level, remove the red cover roads outside the base and remove the cutoff buildings

I seriously doubt Rommel will consider any changes to the dragon's teeth or the elevated terrain because that is the focus of the map. It is his central idea.

Most people will not contribute to map design discussions as it can be hard and time consuming to articulate what should be changed. As a result the mapmaker believes there is no demand for change and without overwhelming evidence won't accept criticism or advice to change the map..

Hence I would have added a poll on whether certain features should or shouldn't remain and hope that enough people show interest in the discussion.

For what seems like the millionth time, the wrong version of the map is in the pool. And everything (and more) has been addressed, the only thing that hasn't (and never will be as Skemshead pointed out) is the dragon teeth and elevation change.

The rest was adjusted.

Edit: This also applies to Halbe.

I can't comment on any of the issues you brought up, but I have another issue with the map. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I feel that too much of the map has super long sight lines. I think this map feels really imbalanced in some matchups because of how this favors long range infantry and machine guns. Factions that have the best HMGs are put at an advantage, while factions that have lacking HMGs are put at a disadvantage - so much so that the team with the worse MGs or worse defensive options feels helpless.

Well, this is a problem of 90% of maps in the mappool, troughout all the game mods

Well, this is a problem of 90% of maps in the mappool, troughout all the game mods

Somewhat ironically it is the most open 1v1 map (the centre) yet has the most confined base exits.