Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

"Makes sense, the Sherman was superior to the IV after all."

Could make sense if 1 aimed shot to the turret could hit the flawed weapon rack and 1shot hit...historically balance doesn't matter, this tank cost 110 fuel and is basically the best medium standard.

To be honest, it doesn't even make sense historically, panzer 4 has a kwk 40 main gun, it could outright kill a sherman (97 mm of effective armor) at 1000 ms, the short barrel m3 sherman gun fitted in stock m3 struggled to penetrate even a 1936 tank (80 mm of effective armor) like panzer 4 beyond 500 ms.

"The armor difference may not seem like a lot at a glance, but you have to remember that on average Axis guns have more pen than allied guns"

That's EXTREMELY wrong.

Well, I don't know what to tell ya. Relic said it's historically accurate, and I ain't no historian. But I think we're veering off the topic of the in-game Sherman.

And even if it was the best medium standard, what is wrong with this? You say that because the Scott needs a reason to be built, but that's a problem with the unit placement, not the Sherman. Scott shouldn't really be a late game unit.

You also say that there's no other reason to build other mediums. Well, what other mediums does USF have? Jacksons? Easy Eights if you have Rifle Company I suppose? It's the same thing as with Riflemen. USF has to crutch on the Sherman as it's late game armor.

Not extremely wrong, since the differences aren't that far off when looking at the stats (thanks for that Vipper btw)but still wrong, yes.

You didn't address the thing about the smoke though.

At your request:
Stug 200/185/170
Panther 260/240/220
Panther 260/240/220
JP 200/185/170


One has to look at the bigger picture to full understand the issue with Pz.IV. In EFA Ostheer would play defensively until they could produce Pz.IV and then they could start pushing. After the introduction of the WFA and they change to Soviets, Ostheer still have to play defensively but the Pz.IV can not help them push since even a Su-76 can penetrate it at 100% at max range. So they have to rely on the over performing Stug until they can get a Tiger.

Yeah, looks like I was wrong about the Axis having so much higher pen. Guess it only seems like it. Note to self, do not believe the general belief without evidence.

This mod addresses that though, the Pz.IV got better pen now to deal better deal with things farther away: 125/115/110

Well, I don't know what to tell ya. Relic said it's historically accurate, and I ain't no historian. But I think we're veering off the topic of the in-game Sherman.

And even if it was the best medium standard, what is wrong with this? You say that because the Scott needs a reason to be built, but that's a problem with the unit placement, not the Sherman. Scott shouldn't really be a late game unit.

You also say that there's no other reason to build other mediums. Well, what other mediums does USF have? Jacksons? Easy Eights if you have Rifle Company I suppose? It's the same thing as with Riflemen. USF has to crutch on the Sherman as it's late game armor.

Not extremely wrong, since the differences aren't that far off when looking at the stats (thanks for that Vipper btw)but still wrong, yes.

You didn't address the thing about the smoke though.

Yeah, looks like I was wrong about the Axis having so much higher pen. Guess it only seems like it. Note to self, do not believe the general belief without evidence.

This mod addresses that though, the Pz.IV got better pen now to deal better deal with things farther away: 125/115/110

The problem is that it is dirty cheap af, there is no reason for it to keep such performances while panzer 4, cromwell, t34 all are balanced.

At your request:
Stug 200/185/170
Panther 260/240/220
Panther 260/240/220
JP 200/185/170


One has to look at the bigger picture to full understand the issue with Pz.IV. In EFA Ostheer would play defensively until they could produce Pz.IV and then they could start pushing. After the introduction of the WFA and they change to Soviets, Ostheer still have to play defensively but the Pz.IV can not help them push since even a Su-76 can penetrate it at 100% at max range. So they have to rely on the over performing Stug until they can get a Tiger.

That is more a su needing a nerf

The problem is that it is dirty cheap af, there is no reason for it to keep such performances while panzer 4, cromwell, t34 all are balanced.

What kind of resource increase did you have in mind?

...
This mod addresses that though, the Pz.IV got better pen now to deal better deal with things farther away: 125/115/110
...

That does not mean much since PzIV are less cost efficient than allied medium and can not handle heavies or Super heavies.

Especially combined with nerfs to stugs.

In addition the Allied TD just cut PzIV down even at max range.

Ostheer either need redesign or need mediums that carry them better.

What kind of resource increase did you have in mind?

Resource isn't the issue.
The issue is respectable at+good ai+ average pen (better than t34, worse than panzer 4, same as cromwell)+late game utility.
The next step is crews repairing the tanks....oh yeah

The game has to go to the opposite direction, EVEN IF the price justified it (but 110 fuel for vanilla sherman performances is a joke), sherman should lose any support role, give smoke entirepy to scott, as an incentive of balanced army composition rather than 1 unit spam...and it would be surely not the only way usf can provide smoke.

I would instantly remove he, give sherman same cromwell/panzer 4 ai, start eventually rebalancing price from there, give scott as powerful anti infantry instead.

Than a global upgrade could be evaluated, but it still end up being ez8 less armored version.

Here's a preview of what is to come. It also allows you guys to review changes before they pop out.

2.42 Preview

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Certainly like the sound of the Sexton Changes! Looking forward to trying them out.

Is the Rear Echelon Grenade launcher going to work like the British CoH1 grenades? Hmmmm... Might get chaotic and spammy... I'm a little hesitant to support the change using theory crafting alone. Will need to test it out first.

Any verdict on the Centaur vs Light Cover? Can't find it on the list.

Liking these new changes. How are the REs' riflenades going to work? Is it like grens in coh2 or automatic like tommies in coh1? And are they going to have 15 muni or 25 muni smoke?

Oh man, those Rear Echelon and Elite Crew changes.

I think I'm in love.

The Rifles grenade cooldown is fine, I can't imagine a situation where I need smoke and also immediately need to toss a frag.

Oh man, those Rear Echelon and Elite Crew changes.

I think I'm in love.

The Rifles grenade cooldown is fine, I can't imagine a situation where I need smoke and also immediately need to toss a frag.

A lot of times I'll pop smoke on an mg position I know is there and run in with the same squad and nade it (especially if it's a garrison) if I don't immediately see it repositioning, which feels kind of cheap. It's still no flame nade.

And yeah, the elite vehicle crew changes are amazing too.

A lot of times I'll pop smoke on an mg position I know is there and run in with the same squad and nade it (especially if it's a garrison) if I don't immediately see it repositioning, which feels kind of cheap. It's still no flame nade.

And yeah, the elite vehicle crew changes are amazing too.

Definitely, few things are quite as terrifying to see when you're garrisoned than one of those.

For me, I usually end up using the smoke to haul ass out of sticky situation. That disable main gun effect is pretty much invaluable, easily one of the many prominent reasons to keep a rifle squad around.

The Elite Vehicles upgrade is just the icing on the cake. Never really understood what Relic was thinking with the vanilla version. Shouldn't an elite tank crew do something better that's actually tank related, not just get some SMGs?

It would certainly be worth exploring delaying when a unit gets inside a vehicle by at least 5 seconds to make the Tommy Guns useful. Nobody in their right mind would try and fight approaching infantry from outside their vehicle since they can be stolen instantly. This is why the Tommy Gun upgrade is a waste of resources.

It would certainly be worth exploring delaying when a unit gets inside a vehicle by at least 5 seconds to make the Tommy Guns useful. Nobody in their right mind would try and fight approaching infantry from outside their vehicle since they can be stolen instantly. This is why the Tommy Gun upgrade is a waste of resources.

that would be an extremely bad idea. Being able to unload vehicle's crews is already a major advantage USF vehicles have allowing them to drop smg troops at point blank range would make it even greater.

Currently the ability can be used against support weapon that can not crew the vehicle.

But couldn't you simply steal their vehicle when they do that? Not to mention you can already do that tactic to even greater effect with Halftracks, without the risk of having your vehicle stolen and have reinforcement capability on your side.

But couldn't you simply steal their vehicle when they do that? Not to mention you can already do that tactic to even greater effect with Halftracks, without the risk of having your vehicle stolen and have reinforcement capability on your side.

USF have only doctrinal half-trucks and not in the specific doctrine...again currently the ability can be used vs support weapons.

Honestly see nothing wrong with it. If the enemy couldn't prevent that from happening by supporting their weapon teams with superior Infantry AT, it's on them. It's war, loss is inevitable.

If facing the tactic myself, I would unload on and attempt to destroy their empty vehicle and accept the temporary loss of my weapon team before they get back in their vehicle. It's unlikely they will use the Vehicle Crew to crew the Heavy Weapon when it means losing their vehicle to do so. Speaking of which, the suggested change would apply to the vehicle crews themselves too. Allowing you time to kill them before they get back in, if you choose to do so.

I have released the next version. Changelog is mostly the same.

2.42

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Kekelon Grenades + Mechanized Company might be one of the most hilarious things I never knew I needed in my life

Kekelon Grenades + Mechanized Company might be one of the most hilarious things I never knew I needed in my life

The nerfs are already on the way!

Though rifle grenades are being toned down with the following changes with possibly more incoming:

-Grenade timer from 0.75 to 1.35
-Minimum range from 10 to 15