Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

So far, in every mod game we've played people were building their core-army light vehicles and then called Greyhound as an icing on the cake to deliver the killing blow. That was before we swapped Stuart/AAHT locations though.

That's what people were doing after testing the new Greyhound stats?

I'd be curious if people are maintaining Greyhound usage with the Stuart/AAHT swap.

I can see the big picture now, thx.
Looking forward to those changes and support to restart, seems solid.

BTW isg, which will be its role ?

I'm not sure if you're aware but relic may not be patching this game anymore period, just FYI.

And about the stgs- there's 3 different kinds (volks, sturms, and pgrens) and I had no idea which you were referring to but again, coh2.hu isn't empirical and it's burst calculations are off. Volks stgs do more damage than they appear to do on coh2.hu.

I'm not sure if you're aware but relic may not be patching this game anymore period, just FYI.

And about the stgs- there's 3 different kinds (volks, sturms, and pgrens) and I had no idea which you were referring to but again, coh2.hu isn't empirical and it's burst calculations are off. Volks stgs do more damage than they appear to do on coh2.hu.

It was clear we were talking about volksgrenadiers, the mp44 of volks has never been changed ever since first live implementation, the stats are accurate since taken directly from game code litterally a few patches ago and identical to live stats.

It was clear we were talking about volksgrenadiers, the mp44 of volks has never been changed ever since first live implementation, the stats are accurate since taken directly from game code litterally a few patches ago and identical to live stats.

You said stgs. I had no idea which kind you were talking about. Volksgrenadier stgs are different from panzergrenadier or sturmpioneer stgs. And again, stats for burst damage on coh2.hu is not as accurate as one would think. I believe (not sure if this is correct) that single-fire dps (so basically infantry rifles) is more or less accurate.

Alright, time for a little Necromancy! lol.

Centaur
We are bringing Centaur’s anti-garrison performance in-line with the FlakHQ/Luchs and other flak-based units we have previously fixed. Increased acceleration will allow the unit to perform its anti-infantry role more reliably.

- Increased scatter to FlakHT levels
- Added penalties vs heavy cover and light cover
- Increased damage vs garrisons
- Acceleration from 1.5 to 1.9
- Projectile now ignores terrain
- Reduced accuracy vs vehicles

I remember that during the FBP, we had already tried to decrease the Centaur's ability to hit units in Light Cover but it was determined that it made it suffer too much during late game. So the light cover change was reverted. Why was it not reverted on this mod too with the British being weaker in general?

I'm still playing the game with the revamp mod myself and the Centaur just feels so incredibly underwhelming. Had to get two of them to somewhat effectively deal with Panzergrenadier stragglers on Angoville. The shrub and ditch cover made them feel pathetic. :/

Vickers_k
- DPS curve normalised to that of DP-28

This change will make it so that the performance of double-vickers-k units does not exceed the performance of Bren gun infantry by a lot

As for the Vickers K, it still doesn't feel right to me. I don't feel it's cost effective to get these things at all over a Bren Gun. Nor does it really have a unique purpose.

Honestly would love to see it also decreased to one per squad and increase it's damage output back to Vanilla. But increase the reload time from 8.94 to maybe... at least 12 Seconds? lay down a lot of fire at once but take far longer to reload than a Bren Gun which is at 5 Seconds? Would love to experiment with that. Maybe even give them a VERY light suppression like the LMG42 of CoH1?

Not that this will ever happen but it would be cool it if the gun had a toggle command that lets you choose when to fire the Vickers K so that you can wait until the enemy gets close enough then open up.

Come on guys! Keep the mod discussion alive!

I'll check the Centaur and match it up with FBP. Meanwhile Vickers K might see some cost adjustment.

Progress will be slow as currently I'm the only one hammering away and I also have stuff to do or want to do (such as Stream Revamp for you guys ).

An update, however will be coming some time either this or next week.

Can you script the sniper AI to avoid shooting at vehicles?

Ah, the M4A3(76) at last makes an appearance. Personally, I think it should be an upgrade that replaces the normal M4A3.

A player should have to decide if they want a tank with better anti-armor in exchange for reduced anti-infantry capability for the rest of the match.

Ah, the M4A3(76) at last makes an appearance. Personally, I think it should be an upgrade that replaces the normal M4A3.

A player should have to decide if they want a tank with better anti-armor in exchange for reduced anti-infantry capability for the rest of the match.

I would definetly appreciate such a change but it needs to cost more than 60/90 muni, and it should also be done in a scenario in which sherman lose that smoke ability because it would make it clearly a no brainer.

I would definetly appreciate such a change but it needs to cost more than 60/90 muni, and it should also be done in a scenario in which sherman lose that smoke ability because it would make it clearly a no brainer.

It should basically be a universal upgrade like in CoH1, as in costing fuel and manpower.

But why should they give up smoke? It's already trading AI for better penetration, why give up utility? Shermans are supposed to support with smoke, that's why they have some of the best smoke in the game.

It should basically be a universal upgrade like in CoH1, as in costing fuel and manpower.

But why should they give up smoke? It's already trading AI for better penetration, why give up utility? Shermans are supposed to support with smoke, that's why they have some of the best smoke in the game.

Because right now sherman is stupidly cost efficient jack of all trades, master of all shit with he shells, smoke, 120 pen, 160 armor, 110 fuel cost, there is not a single reason to not get any other medium in game, and there is no reason at all to get a scott, which shoyld getsmoke instead.

Because right now sherman is stupidly cost efficient jack of all trades, master of all shit with he shells, smoke, 120 pen, 160 armor, 110 fuel cost, there is not a single reason to not get any other medium in game, and there is no reason at all to get a scott, which shoyld getsmoke instead.

Eh, it's a jack of all trades for sure, but it's not a master of anything (except smoke).

Is that pen stat with the AP shells or HE? And at what range? I'd check myself but I don't have access to the mod tools at the moment.

And that armor isn't so impressive when taken into account with the armor it's up against.

Scott does have smoke, and you're right about there being not enough incentive to build it. But I think that's a problem with the Scott's placement, not with the Sherman.

Eh, it's a jack of all trades for sure, but it's not a master of anything (except smoke).

Is that pen stat with the AP shells or HE? And at what range? I'd check myself but I don't have access to the mod tools at the moment.

And that armor isn't so impressive when taken into account with the armor it's up against.

Scott does have smoke, and you're right about there being not enough incentive to build it. But I think that's a problem with the Scott's placement, not with the Sherman.

120/100/80 pen obviously ap
Panzer 4 has 120/110/100 pen for 125 fuel with low ai capabilities
The armor is the same of cromwell, only 20 less than panzer 4, a minimal difference.

I know scott has smoke, it should have the only smoke in armor.
A point and click nondoc/no tech requirement ability that deny the second shot of any atg us far to powerful for a 110 fuel vehicle that has no inferior armor compared to tanks that doesn't have this benefit.

There's already radio net as incentive in brainless sherman spamming abd nobody has ever seen a scott.

Ez8 as premium medium should still have it tho.

120/100/80 pen obviously ap
Panzer 4 has 120/110/100 pen for 125 fuel with low ai capabilities
The armor is the same of cromwell, only 20 less than panzer 4, a minimal difference.

I know scott has smoke, it should have the only smoke in armor.
A point and click nondoc/no tech requirement ability that deny the second shot of any atg us far to powerful for a 110 fuel vehicle that has no inferior armor compared to tanks that doesn't have this benefit.

There's already radio net as incentive in brainless sherman spamming abd nobody has ever seen a scott.

Ez8 as premium medium should still have it tho.

Huh. Just looked up the stats, and it's actually 140/120/100 for the Sherman's main gun (AP), as opposed to the Pz.IV's 120/110/100. Makes sense, the Sherman was superior to the IV after all.

And it's not that the Pz.IV has low AI capabilities in it's own right, it's that the HE rounds are just much better. (Have an AOE of 4 as opposed to Pz.IV's 2.5)

The armor difference may not seem like a lot at a glance, but you have to remember that on average Axis guns have more pen than allied guns, which means that Allied tanks are under greater threat most of the time compared to Axis.

And I think you're exaggerating the effects of smoke. Sure, if a barrage lands on your gun it loses target, but if you only have a [group of/single] AT gun to fight off Shermans, you've probably got bigger problems. You should have other forces on hand to prevent a breakthrough or to chase retreating Shermans through smoke. Also, it's not like a smoke barrage will ever help in a face to face battle with other tanks. It's a barrage, not like the M20's emergency smoke screen.

Honestly, the Scott shouldn't be in Battalion, it should be in the Company. A nerfed version, I mean. Mostly to replace the Pack Howitzer, which I know the team has been reworking to be viable but honestly still shouldn't exist.

...
The armor difference may not seem like a lot at a glance, but you have to remember that on average Axis guns have more pen than allied guns, which means that Allied tanks are under greater threat most of the time compared to Axis.
...

Actually the penetration allied gun is very high:
Su-76 200/190/180
Su-85 240/230/220
M36 240/220/200
Firefly 260/240/210

even the SU-76 has 100% chance to penetrate the Ostheer PZIV at range 60...

Combined with the range of 60 make PZIV a investment that is not cost efficient.

Actually the penetration allied gun is very high:
Su-76 200/190/180
Su-85 240/230/220
M36 240/220/200
Firefly 260/240/210

even the SU-76 has 100% chance to penetrate the Ostheer PZIV at range 60...

Combined with the range of 60 make PZIV a investment that is not cost efficient.

Well, in my defense I never said Allied had bad pen, simply that Axis have better pen. Again though, you've caught me away from my computer. Mind putting up the Axis pen stats ?

Still, the Pz.IV having issues doesn't make the Sherman OP or overly efficient. It's a good support tank, but still meager against later game armor.

Pen doesn't mean much if the RoF isn't there to back it up. Part of the reason why the panther is underwhelming in 1v1. The sherman is overly efficient if you compare them with the p4. You can also say the p4 is not worth the investment compared to the sherman. no matter which way you say it though, Sherman > P4

Pen doesn't mean much if the RoF isn't there to back it up. Part of the reason why the panther is underwhelming in 1v1. The sherman is overly efficient if you compare them with the p4. You can also say the p4 is not worth the investment compared to the sherman. no matter which way you say it though, Sherman > P4

This is because for most USF Commanders, the Sherman is the USF lategame, it's their Tier 4 after all.

Huh. Just looked up the stats, and it's actually 140/120/100 for the Sherman's main gun (AP), as opposed to the Pz.IV's 120/110/100. Makes sense, the Sherman was superior to the IV after all.

And it's not that the Pz.IV has low AI capabilities in it's own right, it's that the HE rounds are just much better. (Have an AOE of 4 as opposed to Pz.IV's 2.5)

The armor difference may not seem like a lot at a glance, but you have to remember that on average Axis guns have more pen than allied guns, which means that Allied tanks are under greater threat most of the time compared to Axis.

And I think you're exaggerating the effects of smoke. Sure, if a barrage lands on your gun it loses target, but if you only have a [group of/single] AT gun to fight off Shermans, you've probably got bigger problems. You should have other forces on hand to prevent a breakthrough or to chase retreating Shermans through smoke. Also, it's not like a smoke barrage will ever help in a face to face battle with other tanks. It's a barrage, not like the M20's emergency smoke screen.

Honestly, the Scott shouldn't be in Battalion, it should be in the Company. A nerfed version, I mean. Mostly to replace the Pack Howitzer, which I know the team has been reworking to be viable but honestly still shouldn't exist.

"Makes sense, the Sherman was superior to the IV after all."

Could make sense if 1 aimed shot to the turret could hit the flawed weapon rack and 1shot hit...historically balance doesn't matter, this tank cost 110 fuel and is basically the best medium standard.

To be honest, it doesn't even make sense historically, panzer 4 has a kwk 40 main gun, it could outright kill a sherman (97 mm of effective armor) at 1000 ms, the short barrel m3 sherman gun fitted in stock m3 struggled to penetrate even a 1936 tank (80 mm of effective armor) like panzer 4 beyond 500 ms.

"The armor difference may not seem like a lot at a glance, but you have to remember that on average Axis guns have more pen than allied guns"

That's EXTREMELY wrong.

Well, in my defense I never said Allied had bad pen, simply that Axis have better pen. Again though, you've caught me away from my computer. Mind putting up the Axis pen stats ?

At your request:
Stug 200/185/170
Panther 260/240/220
Panther 260/240/220
JP 200/185/170

Still, the Pz.IV having issues doesn't make the Sherman OP or overly efficient. It's a good support tank, but still meager against later game armor.

One has to look at the bigger picture to full understand the issue with Pz.IV. In EFA Ostheer would play defensively until they could produce Pz.IV and then they could start pushing. After the introduction of the WFA and they change to Soviets, Ostheer still have to play defensively but the Pz.IV can not help them push since even a Su-76 can penetrate it at 100% at max range. So they have to rely on the over performing Stug until they can get a Tiger.