"Elite" is more or less just a forum term for later game units or potent stronger scaling units. Essentially non stock infantry.
There is however an actual "elite" tag for squads. Squads that hold the "elite" tag can fire the LMG34 on the move. Ex. Obersoldaten, Fallschirmjaeger, Sturmpioneers, Panzergrenadiers.
do brits receive double LMG nerfs?
14 Jun 2017, 18:06 PM
#21
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
14 Jun 2017, 18:54 PM
#22
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
You have to keep in mind too that Brens have a crazy long reload time of 9 seconds when Tommy's aren't receiving their cover bonus - so a double Bren'ed Tommy not in cover is going to have long periods where their DPS drops. Combined with the Vet 3 pinata effect then I'd say there are some downsides currently to double Brens. (Though they are indeed a bear to deal with if there is significant cratering going on and yellow cover is everywhere)
14 Jun 2017, 19:03 PM
#23
Posts: 223
You have to keep in mind too that Brens have a crazy long reload time of 9 seconds when Tommy's aren't receiving their cover bonus - so a double Bren'ed Tommy not in cover is going to have long periods where their DPS drops. Combined with the Vet 3 pinata effect then I'd say there are some downsides currently to double Brens. (Though they are indeed a bear to deal with if there is significant cratering going on and yellow cover is everywhere)
Yeah because you totally put IS outside cover. Who even does that? And its no longer a problem in the late game with all the explosives running around, also I have the Balance Mattress to create my own yellow cover. Oh and sandbags/trenches exist, learn to use them.
Fail of War 3 
14 Jun 2017, 19:23 PM
#24
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Yeah because you totally put IS outside cover. Who even does that? And its no longer a problem in the late game with all the explosives running around, also I have the Balance Mattress to create my own yellow cover. Oh and sandbags/trenches exist, learn to use them.
Well, OP called them "mindless blobs" but the truth is if you mindlessly A-move them then you won't be all that effective. Truth is that there are several maps that require you to be mindful of how to micro and cover-hop or build Sandbags to get the most out of your Tommys. (Halbe, Crossing, Etc). It just sounds like classic "it was used to good effect against me therefore it must super easy to execute".
Land Mattress isn't used every game now after it was nerfed so that degree of cratering isn't guaranteed anymore. Also in my experience you tend to not see a lot of Brens with Mobile Assault because a lot of munis goes towards light gammon bombs and flammers so it's kind of a moot point.
14 Jun 2017, 19:26 PM
#25
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
You consider those elite infantry lol? Well considering I put riflemen and tommies as elite infantry in their own right, might as well say they could be too then. Still, pgrens aren't really that great compared to vetted riflemen and tommies with lmgs.
Considering their cost and better stats compared to regular infantry at even vet, they might lack upgrades to scale better, but they require no munitions investment besides healing so I think it's fair to call them Elite Infantry.
Rifles need to be strong and scale well since they are the main component of USF strategy, plus you need infantry to cap points so it doubles up, now Tommies are indeed strong for their cost with all their upgrades but, they lack snares and that is a crippling weakness that can and should be exploited... Even if their RA in cover is a bit silly past Vet2.
14 Jun 2017, 19:41 PM
#26
Posts: 485 | Subs: 1
Yeah because you totally put IS outside cover. Who even does that? And its no longer a problem in the late game with all the explosives running around, also I have the Balance Mattress to create my own yellow cover. Oh and sandbags/trenches exist, learn to use them.
i think you should check the tournament game between LUVNEST and HELPINGHANS. Especially the ones where HHANS got his Infantry Section RAPED by axis artillery.
There is a reason why IS are not that good (against osther at least), it's called mortar.
now if you go braindead and except your grenadier to win against more expensive and still less versatile IS, you are going to have indeed a lot of truble.
there is also a direct counter to sandbags/trenches, it's the grenade, learn to use them.
Since it can lead to a ban , i won't ask you for playercard but you know what i mean
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14 Jun 2017, 20:45 PM
#27
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
there is also a direct counter to sandbags/trenches, it's the grenade, learn to use them.
I wish that would be true but that damn 0.5 modifier behind green cover really makes nades useless against cover play (except uberflame nade or molo )
14 Jun 2017, 21:07 PM
#28
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I wish that would be true but that damn 0.5 modifier behind green cover really makes nades useless against cover play (except uberflame nade or molo )
Against trenches it's like hitting a house. You'll get wipes cause it provides garrison cover, rather than heavy cover (one difference with Axis trenches) while all the models are close together.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Jun 2017, 21:26 PM
#29
Posts: 223
i think you should check the tournament game between LUVNEST and HELPINGHANS. Especially the ones where HHANS got his Infantry Section RAPED by axis artillery.
There is a reason why IS are not that good (against osther at least), it's called mortar.
now if you go braindead and except your grenadier to win against more expensive and still less versatile IS, you are going to have indeed a lot of truble.
there is also a direct counter to sandbags/trenches, it's the grenade, learn to use them.
Since it can lead to a ban , i won't ask you for playercard but you know what i mean
Yeah because Helping Hans totally lost both games as Brits. Oh wait..
Luvnest also got mortar, good for getting decrewed that is.
You launch grenade, I step back my IS, grenade hits nothing, I come back and laugh. LMAO.
I'm already ranked 200+ with USF/UKF, it's not going to be long. Meanwhile you're already banned in Steel Division LMAO. Have fun with your alt.
EDIT: Oh and a class act displaying my playercard, considering you don't even play the game anymore.
Fail of War 3
14 Jun 2017, 22:24 PM
#31
Posts: 3053
My view is that IS are the only general combat infantry brits get (commandos are ambush troops, especially late game, and can't be used as normal infantry due to their RA and bleed). This means that they do have to scale really well compared to, say grenadiers, who generally have more support options (being an EFA unit), are more versatile (due to g43s and no debuff out of cover) and can be supported by pgrens. It is also very expensive to double up lmgs on multiple sections as well, and brens are kinda bad compared to other lmgs for various reasons IIRC, and drop a lot at vet3. Still, that doesn't mean they are 100% balanced as a whole.
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15 Jun 2017, 03:35 AM
#32
Posts: 177
The thing with IS is that they are very powerful long-range infantry that scale well into the late game, but that is really all they are.
They don't get an AT snare, they get strong debuffs out of cover or on the move, they get useless tools (has anyone actually seen an IS grenade or arty flare recently?). They are also expensive and lose to any tools that temporarily deny their cover (arty, riflenades, flame nades, etc.) or when caught out at short range.
Not saying that they are bad, I like them, they are great when used properly. But IMO if you want to take away the dual LMG, there will be no use for them in the late game, unless you change something else in return as elchino7 said (random example: replace the useless short-range nade with a smoke rifle-nade, or make the arty flare actually deal damage).
On the other hand IMO the 5-man squad is still over-performing for the cost of the upgrade. And from a Wehr perspective, Panzergrenadiers definitely seem super lackluster against IS (not to mention USF rifles...).
They don't get an AT snare, they get strong debuffs out of cover or on the move, they get useless tools (has anyone actually seen an IS grenade or arty flare recently?). They are also expensive and lose to any tools that temporarily deny their cover (arty, riflenades, flame nades, etc.) or when caught out at short range.
Not saying that they are bad, I like them, they are great when used properly. But IMO if you want to take away the dual LMG, there will be no use for them in the late game, unless you change something else in return as elchino7 said (random example: replace the useless short-range nade with a smoke rifle-nade, or make the arty flare actually deal damage).
On the other hand IMO the 5-man squad is still over-performing for the cost of the upgrade. And from a Wehr perspective, Panzergrenadiers definitely seem super lackluster against IS (not to mention USF rifles...).
15 Jun 2017, 06:39 AM
#33
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
My view is that IS are the only general combat infantry brits get (commandos are ambush troops, especially late game, and can't be used as normal infantry due to their RA and bleed). This means that they do have to scale really well compared to, say grenadiers, who generally have more support options (being an EFA unit), are more versatile (due to g43s and no debuff out of cover) and can be supported by pgrens. It is also very expensive to double up lmgs on multiple sections as well, and brens are kinda bad compared to other lmgs for various reasons IIRC, and drop a lot at vet3. Still, that doesn't mean they are 100% balanced as a whole.
Cuz brit doesn't get access to vickers/Mortar pit/UCflamer/Sniper early game to support their IS?
Brit remains a superior version of Ostheer today. They only lack snares but what snares are for when the only threat is a 222 that doesn't burst anything they don't really need it.
15 Jun 2017, 06:43 AM
#34
Posts: 2066
Considering their cost and better stats compared to regular infantry at even vet, they might lack upgrades to scale better, but they require no munitions investment besides healing so I think it's fair to call them Elite Infantry.
Rifles need to be strong and scale well since they are the main component of USF strategy, plus you need infantry to cap points so it doubles up, now Tommies are indeed strong for their cost with all their upgrades but, they lack snares and that is a crippling weakness that can and should be exploited... Even if their RA in cover is a bit silly past Vet2.
Hm so the reason riflemen are so powerful is because they are the mainline infantry and they have to cap? All infantry has to cap lol and as far as I know, grens still suck conpared to rifles and tommies..
Tommies are complete bullshit, we all know it. Can't exploit their non existent snare when the AEC shows up at roughly the same time as the 222 and the cromwell always shows up faster than the p4 in most scenarios..
Kappa
15 Jun 2017, 06:59 AM
#35
Posts: 2243
IS with a 5model squad and double equip light vickes which can callin arty...is such a Op bullshit.
IS get such a huge viewrange when vettet...schredd your infantery in secounds and get a huge bonus when in cover.
can equip with handheld AT...and perfekt brens.
its anoying and unbalance to give the brit such a strong standart t1 unit.
IS get such a huge viewrange when vettet...schredd your infantery in secounds and get a huge bonus when in cover.
can equip with handheld AT...and perfekt brens.
its anoying and unbalance to give the brit such a strong standart t1 unit.
15 Jun 2017, 11:51 AM
#36
Posts: 85
Permanently BannedThe thing with IS is that they are very powerful long-range infantry that scale well into the late game, but that is really all they are.
They don't get an AT snare, they get strong debuffs out of cover or on the move, they get useless tools (has anyone actually seen an IS grenade or arty flare recently?). They are also expensive and lose to any tools that temporarily deny their cover (arty, riflenades, flame nades, etc.) or when caught out at short range.
Not saying that they are bad, I like them, they are great when used properly. But IMO if you want to take away the dual LMG, there will be no use for them in the late game, unless you change something else in return as elchino7 said (random example: replace the useless short-range nade with a smoke rifle-nade, or make the arty flare actually deal damage).
On the other hand IMO the 5-man squad is still over-performing for the cost of the upgrade. And from a Wehr perspective, Panzergrenadiers definitely seem super lackluster against IS (not to mention USF rifles...).
They can roll out tanks very fast. They have powerfull AT gun. Availability to cheap piats, and they are good. Hard to wipe infantry.
15 Jun 2017, 18:06 PM
#37
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Hm so the reason riflemen are so powerful is because they are the mainline infantry and they have to cap? All infantry has to cap lol and as far as I know, grens still suck conpared to rifles and tommies..
Tommies are complete bullshit, we all know it. Can't exploit their non existent snare when the AEC shows up at roughly the same time as the 222 and the cromwell always shows up faster than the p4 in most scenarios..
Riflemen are strong because that's all USF has infantry wise, even their F R E E S Q U A D S are basically Riflemen squads, outside of the Major of course, if they had weaker mainline infantry while having weak lategame why would anyone play US?
I mean, most people in the competitive setting don't because they get creamed on unless the enemy makes mistakes, discounting Luv and DevM who have kept USF winratios in high % in the GCS.
Grens are fine or you want them to be like Volks? While having those awesome support weapons and the Sniper they don't need to truly stand on their lonesome, IMHO.
That sounds like poor Fuel control more than anything else, I'll concede Brits are bullshit, but Tommies are one of their least BS units as they need considersable investment to be good and have plenty of ways to counter them due to their dependance of using Cover.
15 Jun 2017, 18:28 PM
#38
Posts: 393
Tommies are complete bullshit, we all know it. Can't exploit their non existent snare when the AEC shows up at roughly the same time as the 222 and the cromwell always shows up faster than the p4 in most scenarios..
I think that's where the problem lies, not the Infantry Sections. Should we perhaps look at the timing those Vehicles hit the field instead?
As mentioned already, the Infantry Sections are pretty bad out of cover and have terrible moving accuracy. Unless that mechanic was removed, we should be wary of nerfing the Infantry Section's firepower too much. Though... If we did nerf the Bren Gun, I'd rather see them fire short, three round bursts when firing at long range. It would lower their DPS a bit and it would make sense, since that is how you are supposed to use the gun anyway.
15 Jun 2017, 19:50 PM
#39
Posts: 593
counter it with tanks... dont fight inf with weaker inf all the time try to mp drain with tanks
15 Jun 2017, 19:53 PM
#40
Posts: 2066
counter it with tanks... dont fight inf with weaker inf all the time try to mp drain with tanks
The problem is; your weaker infantry can't hold the field, meaning you will have less resources than your opponent, which means your tanks will arrive later and most likely later then his or hers.
This is a downwards spiral that can be very demotivating to play against.
Kappa
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