DevM vs. VonIvan reffing and player decision re: bugsplat

Directly from the chat log:

VonIvan: the game was not over though
|GB| The H[oo]ligan486: and yes i know vonivan in the rules it says you have the game

Just admit it, you guys fucked up, no shame in admitting lol.

Yeah you can take bits of it out of context and make it look really bad, hooligan contradicted himself yes. He was under a lot of pressure, as was I.

This chat log is scandalous....Von Ivan didnt get to say a word while AE and his buddy DevM decided what is to be done despite DevM loosing the game to bugsplat.

This ruins all of GCS for me...Too bad I donated money to this

Von could have spoken as much as he liked, he was very quiet, and he was asked to speak up. I only told people to shut up for a moment to clear comms so I could make the proposal that was made.

I'm not attacking either Von, A_E or DevM. Personally, I don't care who won that. My issue comes from the lack of transparency. I want to keep this mutual without bias. A_E has declared his bias (https://www.coh2.org/topic/61003/a-e-declaration-of-bias-regarding-aimstrong-and-devm) From this he shouldn't have any involvement in decisions or opinions towards any refs or players backstage due to conflict of interest.

It's clear that DevM was winning due to that off map ability but before then if he bug splatted then Von wins after, DevM wins. Now, this is just my personal opinion, I don't think this should be a deciding factor on who should win the game as Von could have used an ability to come back. These are all what if scenarios and shouldn't be considered, what should be is VPs as they're certain and should have been Vons win and continue the series as normal rules dictate.

I do understand that his game has bugs and causes the games to crash however this is DevMs 2nd time in this tourney. Whether he should be given more benefit of the doubt that its the game and not his hardware is not for me to decide. I just don't believe that a "what if" scenarios should be considered, by that I mean DevM was winning after the off map and Von before. Why don't we say "Hey Von could have called off map and come back?" Therefore I believe that VPs should be the deciding factor on who should win the game. However, people could abuse this rule and therefore be situational.

From what I've written I believe more rules should be in play, ones that can't be a conflict of interest or bias. If you're biased I believe you shouldn't have any communication to refs or players. This would remove the drama of the bias persons involvement and speculation from the fans.

How many bug splats happened in this tourney? Does anyone have a number? From those stats, we can come up with a solution to some degree. A permanent ruling that if you bug splat outside of 10 minutes you lose outright for instance. No interpretation needed,

Yeah you can take bits of it out of context and make it look really bad, hooligan contradicted himself yes. He was under a lot of pressure, as was I.

Things out of context? That is the main referee telling VonIvan that the game was his by the rules. Then you march in and bend the conditions so that DevM gets insane advantages xd

My issue comes from the lack of transparency.

But I'm literally being as transparent as possible, hence this post

Things out of context? That is the main referee telling VonIvan that the game was his by the rules. Then you march in and bend the conditions so that DevM gets insane advantages xd

Yeah but tehre's only one rule and it's clearly stated, he also says it's clearly DevM that has won, and had sent me PMs that effect. He contradicted himself with that one line, it was confusing yes.

Sorry A_E I copied a lot of what I've written to other people. I just put it up as is for complete context.

Whatever man, I regret putting money into this tourney now. This is just plain up biased.

Von could have spoken as much as he liked, he was very quiet, and he was asked to speak up. I only told people to shut up for a moment to clear comms so I could make the proposal that was made.

You told the guy to be quiet FFS....are you high on drugs again like last night or what?

Whatever man, I regret putting money into this tourney now. This is just plain up biased.

Based on the rules von could have been out of the tourney there and then, we gave it another game.

I don't understand why it was biased...

Whatever man, I regret putting money into this tourney now. This is just plain up biased.

Yeah me too this is plain BS. Ae and his buddy Devm playing god while von is told to be quiet...AE showed his colors. This tournament is dead for me

It was a bugsplat though, it was an odd situation where a player about to win bugsplatted. I'm not saying we did the perfect thing, however it ended in a direct rematch that DevM won, so I really don't see the problem.

Well, I'm not saying that devm didn't deserve to win. He played better and he would have won in ace game even without additional handicap. I'm just saying that in future tournaments there should absolutely no tolerance for bugsplats. Especially in BO5 and up.

For example in motosports if engine breaks in a car nobody says "Well, we do admit he lost this race but he should start one lap before everybody else next time becouse he had a bad luck". No. He just loses the race. And that is all.

Not to mention that if devm played a game more he would know how to avoid these situations so one could say that bugsplats are his disadvantage.

You told the guy to be quiet FFS....are you high on drugs again like last night or what?

I was on paracetamol and ibuprofen standard painkillers that have no side effects like that at all.

I wish I hadn't said that but it was to all people in that chat, to hooligan, devm, and von. So I could propose a solution. it was a pressured situation. I feel like it turned out fairly, but I regret that we had not just followed the rules and given DevM the win, or said to rematch. Because the weight is now all on me.

I'd rather take the shit than one of the players though, so whatever......

Well, I'm not saying that devm didn't deserve to win. He played better and he would have won in ace game even without additional handicap. I'm just saying that in future tournaments there should absolutely no tolerance for bugsplats. Especially in BO5 and up.

For example in motosports if engine breaks in a car nobody says "Well, we do admit he lost this race but he should start one lap before everybody else next time becouse he had a bad luck". No. He just loses the race. And that is all.

Not to mention that if devm played a game more he would know how to avoid these situations so one could say that bugsplats are his disadvantage.

Yeah I can see where you're coming from and don't disagree, like I said in the OP I think our rules left a lot to be desired in this situation as did my judgement call. I'm just glad it turned out OK in the end.

Blackdream, did you actually read the chat log ffs?


VonIvan: the game was not over though
|GB| The H[oo]ligan486: and yes i know vonivan in the rules it says you have the game
A_E: please be quiet for a moment

AE clearly wasn't directing it at Von, but rather directing it to everyone so he could gather his thoughts on what do next.


Anyways, this was the best call that could've been made. The rules were set and were set since this GCS tourney was started. There was ample time for people like blackdream and Dangerous cloth to lodge complaints when this was first announced.

It was also in a sense a literal rematch so no game was "handed" to anyone.

Yeah me too this is plain BS. Ae and his buddy Devm playing god while von is told to be quiet...AE showed his colors. This tournament is dead for me

Von was not told to be quiet, I had a plan in place to fly von over to england, I was full ready and prepared for him to win this game, I told the chat to be quiet as it was going a millions miles a minute.

DevM is not my buddy per se, I respect him as a player, but have not ever really spoken to him before GCS.

Yeah me too this is plain BS. Ae and his buddy Devm playing god while von is told to be quiet...AE showed his colors. This tournament is dead for me

Stop whining like a little bitch and listen to what the man actually has to say. It was not intended at VonIvan specifically, and if you read the chat, you can actually see that's true. VonIvan wasn't specifically mentioned in that line at all. That DevM continues talking is his problem, but is not because of AE. This has been a brilliant tournament so far, with the exception of just this little mistake, which ultimately was meaningless because DevM won game 5 anyway, so why on earth are you crying this loud?

Based on the rules von could have been out of the tourney there and then, we gave it another game.

I don't understand why it was biased...

It was his second bugsplat, he got away the first time (in a very unfavorable situation) and then and there you said: DevM is notorious for giving players a rematch when they get a bugsplat. Then when DevM gets a bugsplat in a less favorable moment, we suddenly don't treat rematches anymore? Then suddenly we have tournament organizers making decisions?

In the first bugsplat situation the opponent got to choose if there would be a rematch, and mind you, that game was pretty much over too. Now however, VonIvan was not given that right. Further more, you take away that same right from VonIvan and then give DevM a free win by basically giving him faction and map selection. Of course VonIvan agreed with those terms, because you guys basically decided that it would be that way, or he was out. Choice much? I don't think so!

I said it in the chatbox and I will say it again here, your bias played a strong part here. If it had been Barton in DevM's situation, it would have been a loss.

Edit: and then DevM gets a free out of jail card for his 2nd bugsplat in this tournament and refuses to restart his pc when asked and arrogantly states: its coh2 not my pc. You what? How did you even tolerate such arrogance?

He didn't get extra leeway, he got penalised with a loss, but was given map selection because he was clearly winning. It wasn't the best solution as discussed above. But in the rules of this tournament there is an allowance for bugsplats that requires the refs to look at the situation at hand, and make a judgement call. We would have given DevM the win outright based on that.

I agree with what you're saying a little bit here Cruzz, however you're basing it on the assumption that DevM is being negligent in some way, he could have just been very unlucky. We just don't know. What we do know is that CoH2 can bugsplat, and it has happened to the best of us. Hell it once happened to Relic themselves on stream.

I agree that there probably isn't anything DevM could do to fix his issues with any reasonable amount of effort. That doesn't excuse his attitude about the whole thing.

I do not think Von was winning that series no matter what you decided at that point. I do find it somewhat concerning that you seem so willing to hand a player the win outright without the other player conceding to it, even if you ended up giving him the loss as has been the custom in most(all?) tourneys so far (but with a cherry of an extra pick on top).

It was his second bugsplat, he got away the first time (in a very unfavorable situation) and then and there you said: DevM is notorious for giving players a rematch when they get a bugsplat. Then when DevM gets a bugsplat in a less favorable moment, we suddenly don't treat rematches anymore? Then suddenly we have tournament organizers making decisions?

In the first bugsplat situation the opponent got to choose if there would be a rematch, and mind you, that game was pretty much over too. Now however, VonIvan was not given that right. Further more, you take away that same right from VonIvan and then give DevM a free win by basically giving him faction and map selection. Of course VonIvan agreed with those terms, because you guys basically decided that it would be that way, or he was out. Choice much? I don't think so!

I said it in the chatbox and I will say it again here, your bias played a strong part here. If it had been Barton in DevM's situation, it would have been a loss.

The rule is literally if there's no agreement and one player is clearly winning the win goes to that player.

However to stop people accusing me of bias and claiming DevM had a free win I tried to think of a fairer solution that would keep fans happy, and offer a sportsmanlike competitive solution to von and devm.

Obviously in your eyes we failed to do that, but hopefully for most people it turned out in a fair way.