I feel we covered it pretty well on cast but there was a very difficult reffing decision that had to be made regarding DevM vs. VonIvan yesterday. I do not think this was a perfect solution, in fact there may have been better options, however both players and the referee agreed with the proposal at the time so it is what we went with.
In game 4 of this game, DevM had heavily vetted riflemen with BARS, a vetted mg, an at gun, four tanks (bulldozer, 2 M10s and stuart), and map control.
VonIvan had three un-vetted panzer fusiliers, a rakettenwerfer, and a panzer IV with 5% health. (He had no method of repairing the PIV at this moment and DevM looked set to go in for the kill). Von did however had significant VPs remaining.
DevM then received a bugsplat crash from CoH2, something that has been known to happen to most of people that have played this game at some point or another.
(Keep in mind stolen Sherman Bulldozer happened after crash).
Based on the rules of GCS as set up far before the tournament:
Technical Issues
• In the event of a bugsplat/ crash: if both players agree - either restart the game or nominate a winner for that game of the match. If no agreement please save the replay and consult the referees.
We had no agreement, and so the referees were consulted, and based on this in this situation based on DevM clearly being in a commanding position, and had no logical reason to 'fake' a bugsplat, and was on the cusp of victory, we could have given the win to him.
However in the spirit of competition and as this tournament is entirely fan driven, and fan funded. I decided as tournament organiser to offer DevM a proposal that was completely optional.
The proposal was to chalk it up as a loss for him, and to go to a game 5 decider. But as he already had VP control over the entire series, and could choose faction or map, but as he had clearly been hard done to if you chalk game 4 up to a loss, he could choose both faction and map. (Pick a map out of Kholodny Ferma, Crossroads, Faymonville, or Crossing in the Woods).
DevM chose this option, which was not in his interest to do so. He possibly chose this option so he didn't have to deal with people saying he was 'given' a win. He chose to play USF on Faymonville a direct rematch of G4. In my opinion he did the honourable and sportsmanlike thing.
On the proposal/ decision that was made.
I fully own up to the fact that this was not a perfect decision, and not the best judgement call at the time. However it was not that bad either.
The better option would have been to replay game 4, which would have been less controversial and would have kept DevM with a 2-1 lead so he would have been happy and VonIvan would have been happy.
I reiterate we could have given DevM the win based on the rules, but a solution was proposed to create a competitive sportsmanlike solution. I'm not saying it was the best option, but it ended in a fair way.
Conclusions for future tournaments
All bugsplats should require to be screenshotted.
More detailed rules and processes should be put in place for this, with scenario examples. So there is less weight on the judgement of referees.
more time given to make decisions of this nature, and a calmer less pressured response from myself.
chat log:
For context this chat was a pressured chat that was going very fast at the time, it all happened in 2 minutes. The "shut the fuck up" is regrettably rude and was directed at everyone, so I could clear comms and propose a solution.
Also I appreciate I'm appearing as an octopus with my tentacles in too many areas at the moment, I am not usually an ego shit lord, I am just having to be because I'm doing too much work and effort to make this the best CoH2 tournament possibly I can. Once GCS is over I will probably go back to just being a caster.
This makes me come across a bit too fuhrery at times. I realise that, but please rest assured when it comes to these kind of situations, I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible.
I saw nothing that would make me think A_E was biased with the decision, and I have never seen anything from him that would make me think he would be biased in any such case, while organising/judging any CoH 2 tournament.
I do not know why this could even be disputed (had Twitch chat closed at that moment), but I guess the chat went its usual way of shitting over everyone and anyone, flooding the stream with abuse and immature tantrums of all kinds. It can become quite a disgusting place to read at times, and I am sorry for all organisers/casters who have to endure that.
Something is wrong with DevM's PC, and he's being arrogant as hell about it in that chat. He's crashed twice now in just this tourney, nobody else has and speaking from personal experience crashes with a freshly restarted instance of coh2 after the first 30 seconds of starting the game are practically non-existent. It has probably happened once or twice for me, in 4 years and over god knows how many games.
I don't see how getting extra leeway for what should've just been either a rematch or a regular loss with VP lead for G5 is showing "honor".
Something is wrong with DevM's PC, and he's being arrogant as hell about it in that chat. He's crashed twice now in just this tourney, nobody else has and speaking from personal experience crashes with a freshly restarted instance of coh2 after the first 30 seconds of starting the game are practically non-existent. It has probably happened once or twice for me, in 4 years and over god knows how many games.
I don't see how getting extra leeway for what should've just been either a rematch or a regular loss with VP lead for G5 is showing "honor".
Something is wrong with DevM's PC, and he's being arrogant as hell about it in that chat. He's crashed twice now in just this tourney, nobody else has and speaking from personal experience crashes with a freshly restarted instance of coh2 after the first 30 seconds of starting the game are practically non-existent. It has probably happened once or twice for me, in 4 years and over god knows how many games.
I don't see how getting extra leeway for what should've just been either a rematch or a regular loss with VP lead for G5 is showing "honor".
Totally agree. This should have been a rematch or a loss for DevM. Along side this, the way AE set things up (giving DevM faction and map choice) meant that it would basically be a free win for DevM.
Something is wrong with DevM's PC, and he's being arrogant as hell about it in that chat. He's crashed twice now in just this tourney, nobody else has and speaking from personal experience crashes with a freshly restarted instance of coh2 after the first 30 seconds of starting the game are practically non-existent. It has probably happened once or twice for me, in 4 years and over god knows how many games.
I don't see how getting extra leeway for what should've just been either a rematch or a regular loss with VP lead for G5 is showing "honor".
He didn't get extra leeway, he got penalised with a loss, but was given map selection because he was clearly winning. It wasn't the best solution as discussed above. But in the rules of this tournament there is an allowance for bugsplats that requires the refs to look at the situation at hand, and make a judgement call. We would have given DevM the win outright based on that.
This is in acknowledgement of past tournaments where similar situations have arisen, but as discussed in the post above, I wish we'd had more specific rules in place.
I agree with what you're saying a little bit here Cruzz, however you're basing it on the assumption that DevM is being negligent in some way, he could have just been very unlucky. We just don't know. What we do know is that CoH2 can bugsplat, and it has happened to the best of us. Hell it once happened to Relic themselves on stream.
Totally unbiased opinion from Insane member: the game was 99% won by DevM based on the units on the field (if DevM simply A-moved with his army into his opponent's base, he would've won), so the best way to do it would have been to give him the win. It was pretty much impossible for VonIvan to come back from that deficit, though it's also terrible that he was not allowed to play it out regardless.
It's a terrible situation for everyone involved, and each solution is going to be more beneficial to someone else.
It seems like he was OK with the solution proposed, so I think you and Hooligan handled it well, though.
At the end of the day, DevM still won, so VonIvan being given game 4 didn't make a difference. So, essentially he won 4-1. Had VonIvan won game 5, I think this would be a lot more controversial.
PS: Relic please fix bugsplat already, or introduce a reconnect to game feature. I really, really doubt the latter will happen, but I'm still holding on to hope for the former.
Something is wrong with DevM's PC, and he's being arrogant as hell about it in that chat. He's crashed twice now in just this tourney, nobody else has and speaking from personal experience crashes with a freshly restarted instance of coh2 after the first 30 seconds of starting the game are practically non-existent. It has probably happened once or twice for me, in 4 years and over god knows how many games.
I don't see how getting extra leeway for what should've just been either a rematch or a regular loss with VP lead for G5 is showing "honor".
How was VonIvan supposed to win match 5 when his opponent got handed map AND faction selection lol. He basically got handed every condition for losing game 5 lol.
How was VonIvan supposed to win match 5 when his opponent got handed map AND faction selection lol. He basically got handed every condition for losing game 5 lol.
Funny that because G5 was a direct replay of G4, and based on the rules the refs were ready to award DevM the win outright.
Dangerous cloth, you do realise It was literally a rematch? Von got his OKW on the same side and DevM's USF on the side he was on last match. The match wasn't handed to DevM since it was the exact same as last one; Von even did the med truck strat that he did last match
Funny that because G5 was a direct replay of G4, and based on the rules the refs were ready to award DevM the win outright.
Yeah but you forget that it was the second time the bugsplat happened to DevM. The first time it happened he got rewarded a rematch instead of a 'loss' and a insane advantage in the next game.
How was VonIvan supposed to win match 5 when his opponent got handed map AND faction selection lol. He basically got handed every condition for losing game 5 lol.
I'm not saying he should've. I'm saying that if he did, it would have been a very controversial situation as he was basically dead in game 4.
I agree with what you're saying a little bit here Cruzz, however you're basing it on the assumption that DevM is being negligent in some way, he could have just been very unlucky. We just don't know. What we do know is that CoH2 can bugsplat, and it has happened to the best of us. Hell it once happened to Relic themselves on stream.
Isn't being very unlucky the reason why all the matches are BO5 though? You already have it covered A_E. Creating additional, complex rules ad hoc wasn't necessery here. That said I understand your point in some way but you simply make the situation to be far more extraordinary than it actually is.
i calmed down now i read the chat log and im speechless...AE tellingvon to basically shut up while lobbying for devm when talking to the referee....
that's plain BS....
you are lucky von ivan is a nice and polite person anyone else would habe exploded
I was telling everyone to shut up for a moment, it was not directed at him, and I did not mean it to appear it that way it was a pressure situation with fast typing.
VonIvan was out of the tournament, and was given a lifeline through 1) DevM's coh2 bugsplatting and 2) the tournament organiser not wanting to give DevM based on the game situation, and proposing a situation that von could battle back
Isn't being very unlucky the reason why all the matches are BO5 though? You already have it covered A_E. Creating additional, complex rules ad hock wasn't necessery here. That said I understand your point in some way but you simply make the situation to be far more extraordinary than it actually is.
It was a bugsplat though, it was an odd situation where a player about to win bugsplatted. I'm not saying we did the perfect thing, however it ended in a direct rematch that DevM won, so I really don't see the problem.
This chat log is scandalous....Von Ivan didnt get to say a word while AE and his buddy DevM decided what is to be done despite DevM loosing the game to bugsplat.
This ruins all of GCS for me...Too bad I donated money to this
VonIvan was out of the tournament, and was given a lifeline through 1) DevM's coh2 bugsplatting and 2) the tournament organiser not wanting to give DevM based on the game situation, and proposing a situation that von could battle back
Directly from the chat log:
VonIvan: the game was not over though
|GB| The H[oo]ligan486: and yes i know vonivan in the rules it says you have the game
Just admit it, you guys fucked up, no shame in admitting lol. Meanwhile VonIvan was not allowed to speak until the terms were set up by DevM and AE lol.
Insane DevM
VonIvan
Relic Entertainment
보드카 중대 
Heartless Jäger 
