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russian armor

how do you solve the lack of late game arty ?

17 May 2017, 09:42 AM
#21
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93


First of all, ju87 at strafe is literally click to kill at least one medium instantly. If that's not cheese, I don't know what is.

Wait p47 is a problem? It's so damn bad, unless that's what you mean. Don't know much about zeroing artillery other than get the fuck out of the circle


It is not click to kill, unless the medium is already damaged/snared. It costs 200 muni that you have to save somewhere else, and Ostheer is very munitions hungry. If it did anything less, there would no point to using it whatsoever, for the cost at least. As to the second point, yeah, that is exactly what I meant. Every ability should be WORTH ITS COST. That is the basic principle of a balanced game. If you spend 240 muni on P47s or 300 muni on Zeroing Arty and get nothing out of it, that ability is pointless to have. I mean, instead of spending 240 on P47s for instance, you can throw grenades all the time or upgrade your troops with BARs and zooks, which will help you enormously throughout the match, whereas if you save for the P47s, you don´t get sh*t.
17 May 2017, 09:49 AM
#22
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93



By all means, make P47s as appropiate as the JU87s and watch how long it takes for there be trending "meme" posts about Allies having skill planes like the Germans.


If anyone should have skill planes, it is the Allies, considering their overwhelming air superiority in the later stages of the war. Like I said before, you can choose. You either buy a bunch of smaller upgrades(LMGs, BARs, using grenades and so on), or you try to save for one big ability, which you then have to aim correctly and time correctly. In case you choose to save your muni, you can count on being bullied, especially with Ostheer, by enemies who choose the smaller upgrades and abilites, all the while hoping that your big ability will make it up to you. If you miss that ability, you probably lose the game. It is a risk/reward thing, which should not be discouraged IMO.
17 May 2017, 14:44 PM
#23
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2017, 09:42 AMmediev


It is not click to kill, unless the medium is already damaged/snared. It costs 200 muni that you have to save somewhere else, and Ostheer is very munitions hungry. If it did anything less, there would no point to using it whatsoever, for the cost at least. As to the second point, yeah, that is exactly what I meant. Every ability should be WORTH ITS COST. That is the basic principle of a balanced game. If you spend 240 muni on P47s or 300 muni on Zeroing Arty and get nothing out of it, that ability is pointless to have. I mean, instead of spending 240 on P47s for instance, you can throw grenades all the time or upgrade your troops with BARs and zooks, which will help you enormously throughout the match, whereas if you save for the P47s, you don´t get sh*t.

Ju87 can definitely take out undamaged mediums and tds in a single pass. That's a straight fact. Also I would argue that usf is far more munition hungry because they have to feed expensive weapon upgrades (double bar is 120 per squad, double zooks is 100) and constant smoke and grenade spam. As ostheer I run a sniper and 1-2 panzergrenadiers for anti infantry, with maybe 2 grens and mg42 as support. That's hardly any muni unless you spam bundled nades or rifle nades, but it's a very munitions efficient army. As usf on the other hand, I go 3 rifles, an officer (usually captain), and maybe one squad of paras or rangers and RETs for zooks and maybe a .50 and/or pathfinders w/o upgrades in support. For full upgrades that's 670 munitions, for half bars, double zooks (1 zook is stupid) and Thompsons that's 430, which is probably a more fair estimate as double bar rifles are terminators, but for good reason seeing the expense. That's using 0 grenades. As ostheer, I buy lmg42s for my grens and use paks for at till I get an elefant or a ton of stugs.
18 May 2017, 06:30 AM
#24
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Ostheer is starving munition early game when you need to decide if you want an early MG42 or Medic bunker or teller mine. Once you have your medic bunker and equi 2xMG42, you're not really starving anymore.
USF isn't starving munition until you unlock BAR/Zook or decide to go grenade.
18 May 2017, 15:13 PM
#25
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93


Ju87 can definitely take out undamaged mediums and tds in a single pass. That's a straight fact. Also I would argue that usf is far more munition hungry because they have to feed expensive weapon upgrades (double bar is 120 per squad, double zooks is 100) and constant smoke and grenade spam. As ostheer I run a sniper and 1-2 panzergrenadiers for anti infantry, with maybe 2 grens and mg42 as support. That's hardly any muni unless you spam bundled nades or rifle nades, but it's a very munitions efficient army. As usf on the other hand, I go 3 rifles, an officer (usually captain), and maybe one squad of paras or rangers and RETs for zooks and maybe a .50 and/or pathfinders w/o upgrades in support. For full upgrades that's 670 munitions, for half bars, double zooks (1 zook is stupid) and Thompsons that's 430, which is probably a more fair estimate as double bar rifles are terminators, but for good reason seeing the expense. That's using 0 grenades. As ostheer, I buy lmg42s for my grens and use paks for at till I get an elefant or a ton of stugs.


It can take them out, but it is mostly RNG whether it actually does. My point still stands though. The abilities should be worth their cost. If you are so worried about your armor getting sniped from the air, get some AA defenses, an AAHT or an Ostwind or something. The Soviets and Brits are in a slight disadvantage, since they don´t have pintle-mounted MGs on their mediums, but the Soviet tanks are dirt cheap and still effective, whereas the Brits certainly can come up with a few AA options. I don´t think it is broken. Every time I have seen it decide a game, it was perfectly aimed and perfectly timed, for which the player should be rightfully rewarded IMO. It makes for a much more interesting game when it isn´t just about "who bought the most upgrades".
19 May 2017, 18:55 PM
#26
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Any faction that can lay mines should be considered a muni hungry faction. :p
19 May 2017, 23:02 PM
#27
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Any faction that can lay mines should be considered a muni hungry faction. :p

So everyone but USF? Because USF totally doesnt need muni kappa.
20 May 2017, 20:08 PM
#28
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742


So everyone but USF? Because USF totally doesnt need muni kappa.


:guyokay:

I was more making the point that there's always room to spend muni on mines. :p
20 May 2017, 22:20 PM
#29
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



:guyokay:

I was more making the point that there's always room to spend muni on mines. :p

True true but my point is big deal if you can't spam tellers everywhere and then say that you're muni starved.
20 May 2017, 22:22 PM
#30
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 06:30 AMEsxile
Ostheer is starving munition early game when you need to decide if you want an early MG42 or Medic bunker or teller mine. Once you have your medic bunker and equi 2xMG42, you're not really starving anymore.
USF isn't starving munition until you unlock BAR/Zook or decide to go grenade.

Yeah well then ost is only really starving because it doesn't have to go through 300mp and 40 fuel of sidetech just to spend muni (yes yes battlephases but that's part of oats real teching too for whatever reason; usf then still has to pay 50/60 fuel for tier.)
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