Are Obersoldaten balanced?

Far from saying Obers are OP, because they are not, I don't feel that they are balanced.

They are expensive
They are quite weak unupgraded
They are quite weak unvetted
But once upgraded when they start getting vet, which they obviously do quick enough, they become terminators likes that can only be countered by tanks.

They aren't necessarily hitting the field very late, you just need to skip T2 and you can get them around 10 minutes. It depends on your strategy.

On the wild range of infantry available on Coh2, Paratroopers are probably the only infantry unit that can face them toes to toes. Problem is Paratroopers are locked on a unique doctrine which is not meta and aren't scaling well in the USF faction. It is hard to find them a place when they become available unless to replace a lost squad.

Obers are stock and can be purchased anytime after building your T3.

My main concern is exactly that, except Para, only tanks can counter them. I mean being in favorable cover isn't enough to win a fight vs them. Double Bar vet3 works until they get a certain amount of vet and then, even 2xRM double bar will suffer sever losses before forcing them to retreat.
I feel they are missing a weak spot, close or far range and the special upgrade they can get with a doctrine is even worst about this point. they farm your infantry like ants.
I have no problem to deal with them when I have tanks and I usually do have tank soon after the first one pop on sight but first I need tanks dedicated to hurt them and then I need tanks dedicated to counter other tanks.
I ends up always playing the same way vs OKW, especially on teamgame 2vs2, I build tanks to counter Obers and Atgun to protect them. So yes it works well but I feel uncomfortable that this is the only way to deal with them. I cannot decide to stay with my infantry and build tanks destroyers cuz it ends no working at all once obers are vetted.

NB, If I say tanks and not vehicle is because at this stage of the game, there isn't a lot light vehicle still alive and if yes, they are usually behind and used for their special abilities.

Nothing will ever be balanced in everyone's eyes.

Like all four man squads, they die hard to indirect fire.

Snipers at max range, any light medium or heavy vehicle, and indirect fire is the way to go. Commando gammon bombs. There are loads of counters. Even killing two models is a huge mp drain of 100.

You can fight fire with fire or you can fight fire with water. You just have to wake up and realize which works better (hint it's not fire).

I would not mind if they were to be reworked. Making weaker but come out earlier maybe the best option. Also, give them the panzerscheck or an Pzb 39 upgrade for an AT option.

ther UP at vet 0 but broken AF with VET. What needs to happen, they need to be cheaper and have their vet bonuses nerfed

Obers are just overshadowed by volksgrenadiers right now. Way back when they were intended as the real AI specialists, but a volks blob does the same thing for significantly less manpower and micro.

The only issue Obers have is the fact they get surpression through veterancy, other than that they are fine, 4 man squads will never be a problem so long as they can sometimes go *poof* right before your eyes from explosives!
Specially Obersoldat models that take extra damage from those.

I tend to agree with Volks over shadowing them. Taking Shrek away from Volks for StG was not well thought out, it was clear this would happen. Since there would be no reason to not buy the StG.

Obers shouldn't be weakened to come out earlier since they are supposed to be good.

Probably the only answer to the Volks problem is to give them options on upgrades and make them universal base infintry that can diversify, like Shrek or StG or G43 or w/e; Allow choices.

Then there will be a need as the game progresses for units who can fight BARs or Brens effectively (like Obers) because there wont be a massive group of crazy AI infin running around, some will have AT, some will have ranged weapons etc etc.

I tend to agree with Volks over shadowing them. Taking Shrek away from Volks for StG was not well thought out, it was clear this would happen. Since there would be no reason to not buy the StG.

Obers shouldn't be weakened to come out earlier since they are supposed to be good.

Probably the only answer to the Volks problem is to give them options on upgrades and make them universal base infintry that can diversify, like Shrek or StG or G43 or w/e; Allow choices.

Then there will be a need as the game progresses for units who can fight BARs or Brens effectively (like Obers) because there wont be a massive group of crazy AI infin running around, some will have AT, some will have ranged weapons etc etc.

Yes. I like this idea. They should get some upgrade, but not one that makes them outfight rifles (with the help of lavanades, also a little too powerful IMO) and it should have some drawback, like expense, range weakness, or something.

IMO - They normally come too late, unless you just go T1 and don't spend any fuel. They take an eon to reinforce. If the game goes really long, they get really good but most of the time it seems like volks do most of the same job at a much lower price.

The biggest problem with Obers come when a UKF player goes emplacements and more-or-less forces you to get a walking stuka. Obers come out really late and don't do that well against double lmg sections.

they are really underpowered....10 pop cap expenisve dedciated anti infy and vet 3 cant beat vet 3 double bar rifles and get slaughtered by vet 3 bren tommies(tested with both in yellow and green cover....rifles and tommies have less popcap,are generalist,better numbers and stragetically hit way earlier...imo

their damage should be returned to what it was when they got nerfed 2nd time...so lmg ans stgg4 dmg from 6 to 8....and stg44 moving accuracy increased and now fully ignores cover not accuracy debuff but damage as well

ther UP at vet 0 but broken AF with VET. What needs to happen, they need to be cheaper and have their vet bonuses nerfed

WTF..?? they are not broken even with vet they lost to double bren eve nwhen vetted granted yo are not getting suppressed...........and fuck no to making them cheaper and inferior there are plenty so called units like that they need to be the most elite and best anti infy squad in the game if you do this there will be nothing left elite about okw..??

Obers are just overshadowed by volksgrenadiers right now. Way back when they were intended as the real AI specialists, but a volks blob does the same thing for significantly less manpower and micro.

They aren't really when they hit vet4/5. There is a big difference between what they can do to opposing squads.
Now it is sure that Volks actual state doesn't help.

Let's see how the balance team want to balance the faction in the future but I'm concern with an infantry squad that can only be reliably countered with tanks...

Obers should be able to 1v1 any vet three squad at vet 5. They are most expensive and longest to vet infantry in the game and should be for a reason.

They are a specialist unit high pop, high reinforcement etc.

Obers should be able to 1v1 any vet three squad at vet 5. They are most expensive and longest to vet infantry in the game and should be for a reason.

They are a specialist unit high pop, high reinforcement etc.

Nobody says anything else. But actually vet4/5 Obers can solo 2 vet3 squads with little care for range and cover.

Once they reach vet 4 and 5 they become pretty rambo if you ask me. But then again, they are only a 4 men and considering all the demo and Allied artillery potentials, they can get wiped in the blink of an eye. The suppression at vet 4 or 5, can't remember exactly when they get it, needs to go imo.

Volks and Obers share the same issues that ostheer has with stug and panthers.

Anything they can do a cheaper unit does already, if not better. And losing the expensive unit is way more crippling than the benefits they provide if they don't die.

Nobody says anything else. But actually vet4/5 Obers can solo 2 vet3 squads with little care for range and cover.

That includes 2 vet three bars riflemen or double been Tommies?