OKW's early game over-dominance

+2
I wonder how they will go around nerfing them, if that ever happens, heh.

If the StG upgrade switches out the remaining rifles for MP-40s they wouldn't just have a nobrainer upgrade. It'd shift the upgrade into a role change and allow them to flank or act as assault units, but they wouldn't be able to a-move to victory. It'd also allow for a more important role for Obers.

I don't think Volks or OKW are overpowered at all

If the StG upgrade switches out the remaining rifles for MP-40s they wouldn't just have a nobrainer upgrade. It'd shift the upgrade into a role change and allow them to flank or act as assault units, but they wouldn't be able to a-move to victory. It'd also allow for a more important role for Obers.

I would like that idea too. It's also tried and true from the og coh XD

IMO, might be worth trying them with a smoke grenade and no STGs so that it puts more emphasis on Sturm/Volks operating together

I mean I see what you're saying, but even if one plays it relatively safe, it's still a huge asset against the allies when defending large pushes. I think it could at least cost some pop, as the usf officers do (more free shit with teching, I'll admit). On the sturmpio point, the same could be said about brits going sim city, and while REs are cheaper, they don't repair as fast, especially if the sturms have a sweeper.

Yeah as you mention USF get free stuff for tech and don't forget the British do too, they get an extra base arty. So really it's only the two original factions getting screwed by teching.

volks over performing lol what nonsense. the only mainline inf that needs changes right now are conscripts.

volks over performing lol what nonsense. the only mainline inf that needs changes right now are conscripts.

I think the same.I have seen how volks perform vs penals and trust me,vet 3 penals takes some time to kill with volks

I think the same.I have seen how volks perform vs penals and trust me,vet 3 penals takes some time to kill with volks

Lol vet5 volks run over the new penals at any range.

If the StG upgrade switches out the remaining rifles for MP-40s they wouldn't just have a nobrainer upgrade. It'd shift the upgrade into a role change and allow them to flank or act as assault units, but they wouldn't be able to a-move to victory. It'd also allow for a more important role for Obers.

I've seen this idea being tossed around for a few months now and I really do not understand what giving 2 StGs and 3 MP40s would help volks for. It would be entirely map dependant and would place volks into a position that is similar to the Sturmpioneer. If the map is not in favor of a CQC upgrade volks and to a farther extent OKW would get obliterated by non conscript infantry. OKW would have no long range infantry till Obers unless you use doctrinal units. Obers problems are one for another thread as well as conscripts, BARs and 2x bren UKF infantry, but in comparison to 2x BAR rifles and 2x bren tommies volks do not need this nerf.

I've seen this idea being tossed around for a few months now and I really do not understand what giving 2 StGs and 3 MP40s would help volks for. It would be entirely map dependant and would place volks into a position that is similar to the Sturmpioneer. If the map is not in favor of a CQC upgrade volks and to a farther extent OKW would get obliterated by non conscript infantry. OKW would have no long range infantry till Obers unless you use doctrinal units. Obers problems are one for another thread as well as conscripts, BARs and 2x bren UKF infantry, but in comparison to 2x BAR rifles and 2x bren tommies volks do not need this nerf.

I'm not sure how it would put volks in a similar position of the sturmpioneer. Sturms have too many roles and are expensive. Volks would have one of two roles and are cheap.

If the map is not in favor of CQC then allies are just as affected. And allies are much more favorable towards CQC. And I think it's worth noting that all those doctrinal units OKW have are long range units.

This idea has more to do with their StG currently being actually buff to long range, and giving volks lasting DPS down to 2 members at mid to close range. There's absolutely no reason except for munitions to get StGs on volks. The decision to turn the unit into an SMG squad would have a lot more strategic implications than spending 60 munitions for volks+.

And volks really don't get obliterated by non-conscript infantry to begin with. They lose at close range to everything except infantry sections. But it's pretty much all the slot_items that all factions get that are rather wonky.

I'm not sure how it would put volks in a similar position of the sturmpioneer. Sturms have too many roles and are expensive. Volks would have one of two roles and are cheap.

If the map is not in favor of CQC then allies are just as affected. And allies are much more favorable towards CQC. And I think it's worth noting that all those doctrinal units OKW have are long range units.

This idea has more to do with their StG currently being actually buff to long range, and giving volks lasting DPS down to 2 members at mid to close range. There's absolutely no reason except for munitions to get StGs on volks. The decision to turn the unit into an SMG squad would have a lot more strategic implications than spending 60 munitions for volks+.

And volks really don't get obliterated by non-conscript infantry to begin with. They lose at close range to everything except infantry sections. But it's pretty much all the slot_items that all factions get that are rather wonky.

The volks and sturms would be in similar roles of CQC units. If you continuously have to charge your opponet and drop models then your opponet retreats away before you can drop his you just bleed manpower for nothing. It's one of the reasons shocks are bad right now.

If the map is CQC volks and grens become more or less overrun by allied higher DPS squads at close range. If the map is long range, 2x bren tommies still do well and 2x BARs rifles still are potent at range. Cons are just garbage and that's a con problem.

The issue with turning them into a primary smg squad would be if they did they'd be similar to shocks where your opponet would retreat once they got in range to be effective with dropping a model or 2. It's entirely map dependant as well, if it's a long range map you wouldn't get smgs because you'd have to charge through open ground continuously and bleed. Then you're stuck with 5 kar98 volks going up against 2x bren tommies and 2x BAR rifles. That's where you'd get obliterated. Obviously you can change how rifles and tommies work as well but this would be a rather far off issue, plus scope.

And if you have to rely on JLI and fussiliers as callin long range squads you solidify meta commander selections.

I understand that this faction is designed to have an early advantage. You want to dominate me early game, OK, I get it. But why does it have to be at this scale? Please answer the following questions;

• Why do sturmpioneers are the starting unit?
  
  
  

so starting resources for okw is 690 and no need for early tier vs 570-160 = 410. Earlier unlock of absolute'y every unit type in adition to that.
jove nogano. Okw 3 out of 3. Vonivan didnt take a single game vs devm's okw out of those i watched.
Patchers seems unaware of basic things.

so starting resources for okw is 690 and no need for early tier vs 570-160 = 410. Earlier unlock of absolute'y every unit type in adition to that.
jove nogano. Okw 3 out of 3. Vonivan didnt take a single game vs devm's okw out of those i watched.
Patchers seems unaware of basic things.

DevM is top seeded player in the game. VonIvan is, what, 20th? 10th, tops? And with his Maxim spam abuse nerfed, he lost some of his big advantage.

Now that doesn't mean you're wrong about starting resources. But your logic that "Best player beats worse player with OKW, so OKW OP" is terrible.

DevM is top seeded player in the game. VonIvan is, what, 20th? 10th, tops? And with his Maxim spam abuse nerfed, he lost some of his big advantage.

Now that doesn't mean you're wrong about starting resources. But your logic that "Best player beats worse player with OKW, so OKW OP" is terrible.

i think you mistake zarok the maxim master with VonIvan sir and VonIvan is on top with SU you can easily check it by the ladder secondly he doesn't main maxim spam Basically he main anything that are non meta. Maxim got nerf that mean our maxim lord mission has been successful not lost some big advantage he always against maxim since god only know when

i think you mistake zarok the maxim master with VonIvan sir and VonIvan is on top with SU you can easily check it by the ladder secondly he doesn't main maxim spam Basically he main anything that are non meta. Maxim got nerf that mean our maxim lord mission has been successful not lost some big advantage he always against maxim since god only know when

Yeah, he's on top with SU. Maxim nerf was only recently. Maybe you've been living under a rock but VI has been spamming 7+ Maxims for the past 4 years.


Also to anyone thinking about OKW dominance, check these stats:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/60897/gcs-main-round-stats-w-updates

18 allied wins, 10 Axis :/

Yeah, he's on top with SU. Maxim nerf was only recently. Maybe you've been living under a rock but VI has been spamming 7+ Maxims for the past 4 years.


Also to anyone thinking about OKW dominance, check these stats:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/60897/gcs-main-round-stats-w-updates

18 allied wins, 10 Axis :/

so...you said he get this far because spamming maxim ? i don't think so pal

without maxim he'll win both of us ten time

so...you said he get this far because spamming maxim ? i don't think so pal

without maxim he'll win both of us ten time

Yeah, he'd beat us, that's not the point. Point is, I don't remember him winning any tourneys and Devm is arguably better.

But I see you're some kind of VI lickspittle who won't listen to contradicting ideas. So enjoy watching the Maxims a-move around, good luck to ya.

Yeah, he'd beat us, that's not the point. Point is, I don't remember him winning any tourneys and Devm is arguably better.

But I see you're some kind of VI lickspittle who won't listen to contradicting ideas. So enjoy watching the Maxims a-move around, good luck to ya.

well i dont really care what an idea you offer here in the first place. just came around and saw you wrote ......top player lose big advantage because he can't micro anything without maxim and that is. i dont really watch livesteam that much you sir are failure to insulting someone randomly. so better try next post but not that dirty way to call someone a lickspittle will be appreciated

Top player is always a great player to me no matter that guy was romeo ,Devm ,vonivan or stromless they get to that point because they capable enough to micro their strat and including those around there who haven't get their name on ladder yet we can't just call someone no brain player

PS.except if i just lose to em blob lately in that case sure as hell i will and i suppose perhaps you are

Before i'll go enjoy licking people balls let join this topic first shall we

i'd think when we buff some unit we didn't though if it will affect any other current balanced unit like what you guy been debate right now "Stg volk". remember when we took shrek from them ? we all agree to let volk have DPS upgrade rather than AT kit but what we haven't though was how unit like con going to react after this. before it was fine because first when face against OKW you can out flank strum easily and getting close with volk even easier which conscript are able to hit perfectly in medium and better in close range but once volk has taken all range role unit it cause major issue for conscript and perhaps that why people doing a lot more maxim spam right now. my opinion is we should eiter give "to the last man" ability to con or make them long range unit but it might cause another issue to gren because normally conscript can 1v1 with lmg gren if they able to get close to gren without scratch which pretty hard to do it but once they good at long range that what im worried about. or maybe we should ask relic to add another weapon like PPsh-42 with slow rate of fire but do same range as captain thompson or maybe trade that PPsh-42 with any other weapon and give that one to conscript maybe SVT-40 or another varient that do automatic fire

only thing we can do right now is to veto any map the doesn't favor this that those faction while relic consider even larger scope Feelsbadman

The volks and sturms would be in similar roles of CQC units. If you continuously have to charge your opponet and drop models then your opponet retreats away before you can drop his you just bleed manpower for nothing. It's one of the reasons shocks are bad right now.

Volks would share a role when upgraded with full SMGs to Sturms, but like I said this would allow for Sturms to be able to function in one of their other roles: minelaying/sweeping, repairing, using panzerschrecks (still dislike sturmschrecks), and using flamethrowers from the one commander. And still, as a CQC unit, sturms are extremely expensive and fragile.

Also, I am in no way advocating that people just charge opponents with SMG units. An volk squad upgraded with SMGs would probably want to flank or use sight/shot blockers to close, just like any CQC unit.

And finally, shocks have a lot of reasons why they may be considered bad. Their SMGs are not one of them by a long shot. But for this topic, the biggest issue for shocks is a complete lack of AT, just like assault grens, (and Obers for that matter.) Volks have panzerfausts. That's huge.

If the map is CQC volks and grens become more or less overrun by allied higher DPS squads at close range. If the map is long range, 2x bren tommies still do well and 2x BARs rifles still are potent at range. Cons are just garbage and that's a con problem. The issue with turning them into a primary smg squad would be if they did they'd be similar to shocks where your opponet would retreat once they got in range to be effective with dropping a model or 2.

Like I said earlier, I feel like the usage of shocks you're referencing is not an effective method. The idea here is that SMG volks would be a strategic upgrade to give OKW a flanker that isn't expensive and burdened with also being the sole source of mobile AT, repairs, and mines. It would not be an all around buff for volks like the StGs currently are. It is not intended for people to upgrade all their volks and move them as a blob towards enemy units as is currently possible.

The idea would be OKW players could upgrade a volks to SMGs so that their Sturms can stop being a CQC unit to get a panzerschreck. Or, they would get SMGs after they've got Obers on the field or are using doctrinal units.

It's entirely map dependant as well, if it's a long range map you wouldn't get smgs because you'd have to charge through open ground continuously and bleed.

:|

Although I do admit, you are indirectly highlighting the lack of smoke that OKW has.

Then you're stuck with 5 kar98 volks going up against 2x bren tommies and 2x BAR rifles. That's where you'd get obliterated. Obviously you can change how rifles and tommies work as well but this would be a rather far off issue, plus scope.

Yes, you would be stuck with kar98k volks against fully teched allied infantry. However, x2 BARs and x2 Brens are actually at a disadvantage to a full SMG squad if they're able to get an ambush on them. Way more than they are currently against StG and Kar98k volks that are able to do so.

And if you have to rely on JLI and fussiliers as callin long range squads you solidify meta commander selections.

Keyword is 'rely' here. Relying on doctrinal infantry is not what I am suggesting. A full SMG conversion package with the StGs would foster more diversity within the stock faction as well give them an upgrade that would support the multitude of doctrinal infantry that they currently overlap with. (Mostly panzerfusiliers, but the others as well.)