Demos vs Teller mines (one shooting units)

I actually think tellers are fine. You can only place 1 or 2 and you should be sweeping for a vehicle push.

Demo's are not fine. You simply cannot scout every place on the map before you attack with a minesweeping squad, and the soviet army generally has munitions to burn. This is confounded by the extreme damage and range of the demo meaning even if you aren't right on top of it, it can still wipe squads. It is funny when it wipes blobs (blobbers beware) but it is far too punishing for infantry play. Demo's could only be built on structures in COH1 and had timers which made good sense, but controllable demo's are too powerful.

Beginning to believe this thread was written with reverse objectives and agenda. As were now mainly discussing demos which again, are god damn lighthouse beacons when you do what every player worth a grain of salt does SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

So can we return to tellers?

Fun fact: Tellers can also 1 shot squads because the model limit placed on other mines was never placed on them. You just have to manually rupture the mine with a penetrating source like an AT gun.

On topic: Demos should just be removed. In a game based on retreating and preservation 1 shotting squads from full HP is a massive flaw, also only given to the allies.

Give WM a good light tank and then nerf the Teller. The demo for soviets it's not something they need. It's just an OP way to wipe vet3 squads without much effort. In the late game usually munis are not in short supply.

This guy knows what's up ^

Beginning to believe this thread was written with reverse objectives and agenda. As were now mainly discussing demos which again, are god damn lighthouse beacons when you do what every player worth a grain of salt does SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

So can we return to tellers?

Demo's can be set anywhere and you cannot always sweep before you cap points. It forces a very defensive play style against soviets which is not fun to watch or play. Removing demo's would not hamper Soviets as it would have done on day 1, where demo's were needed because German infantry vet allowed them to walk over Soviet infantry in the late game.

I agree that if you don't get sweepers you should get punished. I just don't think that sweepers are able to sweep enough territory fast enough to deal with the threat of demo's.

Make demos to be placebla on garisons only. Problem solved

About the "you can not sweep everywhere for demos", you can not sweep everywhere for tellers either if you make a push from 2 sides (head on and flank).
Just saying!

Just remove ability to blow up demo when it is spotted by the sweeper. That it. No need to remove it from the game.

I think tellers are ok as they can be swept; a player has the opportunity to reliably counter them.

If I ruled the COH2 universe, I would require a player to have a unit within a certain proximity to detonate them.

The only thing makes demo so bloody annoying, besides its ability to insta-wipe, is the fact that despite sweeper detects it, the unit does not shoot at it!

This and the absurd magically locked unoccupied British trenches are two of the most ridiculous issues in the game right now.

About the "you can not sweep everywhere for demos", you can not sweep everywhere for tellers either if you make a push from 2 sides (head on and flank).
Just saying!

This is true and I don't deny it, but there are some big differences.

Tellers are only triggered by vehicles.
They don't respond directly to player control so they cannot be delayed for a bigger hit.
Teller's are usually placed in predictable areas, they are unlikely to be built behind a house for instance.
Teller's can always be avoided by playing defensively with a tank, whereas demo's cannot be avoided forever because it requires a unit cap a point alone at some time.
Teller's are in a munitions limited faction.

I am not saying that teller's aren't good, they are extremely good, but they don't have the potential for MP bleed like a demo.

For instance, yesterday I was forced to retreat my SP with sweepers to base. The VP and a munitions point was open. I needed to cap the VP but I was forced with two options: risk demo or don't cap. Since I cannot afford to maintain two SP's with sweepers I have to be able to move around the map at least with the risk of MP bleed but not wipes when they are not around. If it was a mine I could evaluate whether the loss of models was worth it, but with a potential demo I have to just sit for 1-2 minutes while I wait for the SP to come back. This is not fun to watch and is silly because the other player gave up nothing, since he had scripts and MGs so he could not use any of the munitions he was getting anyway (this is not a dig at them, they played well).

Nerf in demo would mean massive buffs to Make Soviet "combat" engineers viable combat units. Increasing the detect range even more wouldn't bother many either as again those whom blob and/or dont sweep suffer most as they should. This thread was about teller, lawl

I don't think it's really fair that tellers are 50mu, they should be 60. All heavy vehicle mines should be 60.

The demo doesn't need to be removed, but detection and disarmament needs to be better. If I'm not mistaken, sweepers will detect it from a huge range, way outside the blast radius. When I tried to destroy it with small arms, it didn't work. So, I would change that, it should blow up if you shoot it. I would also make it so that regular infantry stopped just outside the blast radius (maybe 5m) can detect it, much like how it works with snipers. I would also not allow it to be camouflaged out in the open. If you lay it in the open, it's visible to all. You need to wire it under some kind of cover to get it camo.

It so easy to counter demo charge, when u cap a point spread out ur squad and cap at the rear of the point. You can predict if they have munitions for demo charge or teller mine based on the unit upgrades such as lmg, flamer, flamer half track, mines etc.. and how much control do they have over the munition points. DON'T drive your vehicle on the road, always assume there is a teller mine on the obvious spot, cross road, high traffic area.

You don't need a sweeper to cap the whole map, you only sweeper to cap where the soviet engineer has been to. I really like the demo charge ability, cuz it counters blobs, and most of time you have to be creative to use it.

They could make demo charge detection range 400 and no sweeper boobs woukd still cry when they blob walk over one.

Don't act like Tellermines are OP... You can also argue that Ostheer is the only faction that has to decide whether a mine should hit infantry or vehicles. Additionally, Ost suffers against Light Tank rushes which are countered by Tellermines.

Nothing gives me a raging hard on like a teller mine that brings down a Stuart or an AEC that is unsupported and goes for my flanks.

Make it so that if the demo has been spotted there is a longer delay and a displayed countdown before detonation.

Nothing gives me a raging hard on like a teller mine that brings down a Stuart or an AEC that is unsupported and goes for my flanks.

I have a similar issue. Do you go AFK to fondle yourself to completion or just blue-ball through it?

Demo Charges are fucking great and so are mines.

If anything, this thread should be talking about how Rear Echelons should be able to plant mines of some sort because mines win games. They're at a distinct disadvantage to other factions.

Demos are a great novelty; not necessarily the best for balance in a faction that doesn't have munition upgrades for most units, but still, it's a fun thing to have. They also make bad players rage when four of their squads die. Or Paula, when he decides to blob hard in a 1v1.

this, you can just hit them from a distance (unlike mines that you HAVE to sweep)

also on a side note, My t70 didn't die to a riegel mine on my last soviet game, is this normal? Isn't they supposed to one shot it?

No it's normal, they are not as strong as tellers

Ghad what I would give for a Schu mine for Pios...

I'd gladly ditch the Tellers and AP mines for 'em. Tellers and AP mines should've been commander fodder.