Is it possible to fix maxim spam before GCS?

Actually soviet tier1 in current state is highly viable against ostheer.

Sniper got indirect buff by nerfs to ostheer sniper, PTRS penals can hold their ground against 222 or even protect sniper.

M5 is much better against ost because 222 arrives 15 fuel later ~ 40 seconds, giving M5 more room to maneuver.

Penals beat grens at most ranges early on.



The problem is that OKW is overperforming in current state, except in few places (garisons), hence that´s why maxims are so abused.

Giving OKW smoke and nerfing their infantry to vanilla faction state will be a good start.

Pls stop trolling

Pls stop trolling

Oh come on. Play few WBP games OKW vs USF or Soviets. Ban Soviets maxims and you´ll see who is having the edge.

After WBP OKW and UKF are overperfoming factions

...Ban Soviets maxims?

Dude, wtf.

You know as well as anyone that there's no such thing as house rules in automatch.

I mean, is this how you've been testing WBP games?

...Ban Soviets maxims?

Dude, wtf.

Just try it. Because only think that is OKW weak against are garisons and especially fast moving mg´s in garisons.

Or then go USF, if you think USF is balanced faction in WBP


EDIT: we have been testing WBP in costums, there you can create houserules.

I´m jusg trying to point out that once soviet maxims are fixed and UKF is fixed, nothing will stop OKW

Of course WBP is in customs. I'm saying house rules like 'banning maxims' is kind of a silly notion considering the intent is to apply it to the core game, and therefore automatch.

But, uh, I mean yeah, I totally agree with you: If you agree to ban maxims, Soviet T1 has great viability in WBP. I mean, I'd go T1 over T2 any day in that situation.

banning maxims lol what? test ost vs USF and ban riflemen too, im sure ost will seem op too

banning maxims lol what? test ost vs USF and ban riflemen too, im sure ost will seem op too

Conscripts are core soviet infantry, not maxims. Also they have penals, guards, shocks and many vehicles.

I was point out that OKW is only lakcing against garisons. If you remove maxims from soviets (or nerf them to balanced state), OKW will steamroll soviets, because they are better at everything..


The same apply for USF vs OKW in current WBP

Brits will become the mostly played Allied faction after these nerfs, specially if you play only Mobile Assault Regiment, with that Commander they are like Sheer Heart Attack... NO WEAKNESSES!

Brits will become the mostly played Allied faction after these nerfs, specially if you play only Mobile Assault Regiment, with that Commander they are like Sheer Heart Attack... NO WEAKNESSES!

THere are actually 3 Major weakeness when you go mobile assault.

1. You cannot abuse arty cover
2. You cannot abuse croco + skillplanez + airlanding commado officer + "tea´n´bisquits ability
3. You cannot abuse cancerplacements

Oh come on. Play few WBP games OKW vs USF or Soviets. Ban Soviets maxims and you´ll see who is having the edge.

After WBP OKW and UKF are overperfoming factions

Cept in auto, sov will have maxims and will therefor shit all over okw.

So strong, much OP.

Oh come on. Play few WBP games OKW vs USF or Soviets. Ban Soviets maxims and you´ll see who is having the edge.

After WBP OKW and UKF are overperfoming factions

How will UKF overperform after the WBP? I need the AEC to get through the mid-game so nerfing that is really going to hurt the 300-500 level players like me. The same thing goes for the Stuart nerf.

I did try the WBP playing against Iron Emperor. We had a good game as Soviet versus OKW when we forgot to change the mod to WBP. Then we replayed the game using the WBP and I got ROFL stomped in under 10 minutes. Taking away the flame upgrade on penals and giving them a nerfed PTRS is a terrible idea. It might work in a few 1v1's but will make the Soviets even worse garbage then they are now in any larger games.

THere are actually 3 Major weakeness when you go mobile assault.

1. You cannot abuse arty cover
2. You cannot abuse croco + skillplanez + airlanding commado officer + "tea´n´bisquits ability
3. You cannot abuse cancerplacements

Man I hope so bad that they ban Mobile Assault and Tactical Support doctrine in GCS, just like they did in KotH. Nobody want's to see this ridiculously OP pudding anymore. But have to say that if they ban these, they also should nerf Command Panther and probably Mobile Defense too.

Unfortunately I doubt that these changes would hit early enough.

Taking away the flame upgrade on penals and giving them a nerfed PTRS is a terrible idea. It might work in a few 1v1's but will make the Soviets even worse garbage then they are now in any larger games.

This is a bit off-topic but removing flamer from penals was the best decision ever. Giving flamer to a durable 6-man squad was such a FailFish - design. We saw that problem with old USF Rifle Company

THere are actually 3 Major weakeness when you go mobile assault.

1. You cannot abuse arty cover
2. You cannot abuse croco + skillplanez + airlanding commado officer + "tea´n´bisquits ability
3. You cannot abuse cancerplacements

I guess it comes to picking the flavour of Brit cancer you want to abuse.

Man I hope so bad that they ban Mobile Assault and Tactical Support doctrine in GCS, just like they did in KotH. Nobody want's to see this ridiculously OP pudding anymore. But have to say that if they ban these, they also should nerf Command Panther and probably Mobile Defense too.

Unfortunately I doubt that these changes would hit early enough.



This is a bit off-topic but removing flamer from penals was the best decision ever. Giving flamer to a durable 6-man squad was such a FailFish - design. We saw that problem with old USF Rifle Company

In 1v1's, I would agree with you about the penal flamer because, with the current map pool, penal flamers make the game unplayable as OKW. I stopped playing OKW in 1v1's because I couldn't find an answer to the large a-moving-penal-blob-of-death. I'd rather see maxim spam all day, every day rather than penals with flamers.

However, in 4v4, not even penals keep the Soviets from being garbage. Conscripts are a joke because of the RA penalties and complete lack of scaling. Maxims are good in larger games only until the first OST mortar or OWK leig hits the field. The standard Soviet mortar is by far the worst mortar in the game, and is mostly just good for smoke. The SU85 seems to have more pathing problems than the JP4.

In short, it feels like they're trying to fix a problem with Soviets by making them unplayable in most game modes. Yes, everyone playing Soviets beat you by spamming either maxims or penals. Everyone who lost to you was either a worse player or tried something other than maxims or penals.

Why not:
Give OKW smoke?
Make the mg34 fire something other than rubber bullets?
Make the OKW incendiary grenades a side upgrade that can be purchased anytime from the start of the game?

Conscripts are core soviet infantry, not maxims. Also they have penals, guards, shocks and many vehicles.

I was point out that OKW is only lakcing against garisons. If you remove maxims from soviets (or nerf them to balanced state), OKW will steamroll soviets, because they are better at everything..


The same apply for USF vs OKW in current WBP

conscripts i agree with you will get out scaled by volks, BUT penals beat VG at all ranges. OKW better at everything? they as you mentioned have no smoke, no reliable suppression platform, no reliable at guns (reketen), OKW have many weaknesses and not better then soviets at everything

conscripts i agree with you will get out scaled by volks, BUT penals beat VG at all ranges. OKW better at everything? they as you mentioned have no smoke, no reliable suppression platform, no reliable at guns (reketen), OKW have many weaknesses and not better then soviets at everything

Volks beat penals cost-efficiently once obtained Stgs.

Or try to fight with similar MP cost units then - pfuss vs penals. Pfuss will wipe floor with penals.

In WBP raketten is really viable, also fausts come sooner and light vehicles means death sentence no more.

Why OKW needs supression when they can outfight every soviet infantry efficiently ?


Yes, OKW is lacking smoke and building control, hence that´s why I didn´t include maxims

Volks beat penals cost-efficiently once obtained Stgs.

Eh, I wouldn't quite say that. They mostly even out with Penals once they get StGs.

Penals only lose if they move around and try to charge the StG Volks. If they stop moving around they beat the StG Volks at range pretty consistently with 2-4 models left if the Volks fights to the death. At point blank range, with one getting the drop on the other, Penals v StG Volks is more of a coin flip. StG Volks seem to perform best at mid range.

But really, whichever squad has to start moving, loses. Volks need to be vet 5 and the Penals under vet 2 to win consistently. Otherwise Volks lose pretty decisively, or win by a razor thin margin.

Or try to fight with similar MP cost units then - pfuss vs penals. Pfuss will wipe floor with penals.

Not quite. They are surprisingly balanced with Penals without the G43 upgrade at long range. They get wrecked at close range though. Again, that is so long as the Penals get the drop on them, and don't just charge them in open cover.

Pfuss will win with G43s though. It's the g43 upgrade, like Volk StGs, that bring Pfuss in line with Penals. However, max vet Penals close the gap on pretty hard even on vet 5 Pfuss. Vet 3 Penals beat Vet 5 g43 Pfuss at close range, but lose hard at long to mid range. Mid range is as much of a dice roll as close-range StG Volks v Penals when they're at max vet.

This is based on an hour and a half of testing with WBP enabled Cheatmod.

(The Luchs, in WBP, interestingly enough seems to have a similar damage output as vet 0 G43 panzerfusiliers. Only because Pfuss loses models does the Luchs kill a Penal squad faster. )

Does anyone see a problem with making conscripts less RNG based (improving their accuracy) and possibly lowering their damage? Therefore maintaining or possibly improving their overall DPS to be inline with Axis backbone infantry? If this was obtained we wouldn't have to deal with maxim spam being the meta option once maxims are brought in line.

Or alternativly we need to balance conscript upgrade commanders to become more meta. Conscripts with PPSHs are pretty decent against volks with oorah.

But yeah Hector is right. OKW will steamroll soviets if maxims get nerfed and something doesn't step up to trade with volks.

It's good to encourage the Soviet player to build a Maxim or other support weapon to support his/her squads. I think ideally you want to encourage the player to build maybe one Maxim and some Conscripts to do the dirty work.

It seems like just the issue is spamming them. Maybe they could have some sort of group debuff or something?

But making Conscripts more consistent with their damage seems good too. But if it's too consistent no one will buy Maxim either.

i dont see maxim spam any differently than mg42 spam. you can have the huge arc of mg42 with 4 men or the narrower arc of the maxim with 6. yes i know maxims unpack fast but mg42 is not that slow either if you have the bulletin which affects it. when you start trying to make all the units the same you wont have factions anymore because they'll all be the same. players who use maxims well with good micro like myself should not be punished with a nerf for being good with the units. neither should an mg42 spammer for having a wider arc be nerfed.