July 30th Patch

I love how everyone complains about the SU-85 when it's the only viable build for Soviets. In anticipation of a SU-85 nerf, I've been playing without T4 just to see if I can make it work (kinda like Nullist's recent "play with the Stug" campaign). It doesn't work.

A P4 can dominate anything that Soviet T3 has. The ZiS is just too slow and almost always gets flanked and overrun before it kills the P4 (ignoring Pripyat because that's a chokepointy trash map). You can ram if you like losing your T34, but the question is why you would ever do this. And even then, you still have to have something that's actually capable of finishing the thing off. The Soviets have to have an answer to German armor, and right now the SU-85 is the only reliable thing.

The only way I've been able to reliably win without the SU-85 is if you've been able to push him off his fuel for a long enough time to surprise him with a T70, but if that happens, you'd probably have won the game regardless. Long story short, until the ZiS and/or T34 gets way more effective (or the P4 gets more expensive or less effective), then complaining about the SU-85 is pointless.

That aside, this patch has some great changes. They fixed some cheese on both sides. Soviets got the HTD nerf (making it effectively worthless as far as I can tell) and Maxim spam nerf and Germans got the strafe nerf. Hopefully the input lag is reduced too. Not to mention the new map. These are things to be happy about.

when will the patch be out?

I love how everyone complains about the SU-85 when it's the only viable build for Soviets. In anticipation of a SU-85 nerf, I've been playing without T4 just to see if I can make it work (kinda like Nullist's recent "play with the Stug" campaign). It doesn't work.

A P4 can dominate anything that Soviet T3 has. The ZiS is just too slow and almost always gets flanked and overrun before it kills the P4 (ignoring Pripyat because that's a chokepointy trash map). You can ram if you like losing your T34, but the question is why you would ever do this. And even then, you still have to have something that's actually capable of finishing the thing off. The Soviets have to have an answer to German armor, and right now the SU-85 is the only reliable thing.

The only way I've been able to reliably win without the SU-85 is if you've been able to push him off his fuel for a long enough time to surprise him with a T70, but if that happens, you'd probably have won the game regardless. Long story short, until the ZiS and/or T34 gets way more effective (or the P4 gets more expensive or less effective), then complaining about the SU-85 is pointless.

That aside, this patch has some great changes. They fixed some cheese on both sides. Soviets got the HTD nerf (making it effectively worthless as far as I can tell) and Maxim spam nerf and Germans got the strafe nerf. Hopefully the input lag is reduced too. Not to mention the new map. These are things to be happy about.

SU85 wasn't nerfed and the P4 was...so...

SU85 wasn't nerfed and the P4 was...so...

Dev said: Panzer 4 accuracy vs tanks should remain roughly the same, scatter mainly affects anti-infantry.

The P4 still rocks every tank besides the SU-85, and I'm not sure that the increased scatter range against infantry is going to remotely even things out in terms of balance. Damage per shot wasn't touched, which is the main issue imo.

anyone know what percentage reduction we will see in terms of the PIV hitting infantry??

Dev said: Panzer 4 accuracy vs tanks should remain roughly the same, scatter mainly affects anti-infantry.

The P4 still rocks every tank besides the SU-85, and I'm not sure that the increased scatter range against infantry is going to remotely even things out in terms of balance. Damage per shot wasn't touched, which is the main issue imo.

What exactly is the issue with the damage per shot? The PZIV is supposed to be good vs other medium tanks (the T34/76 and T34/85) and decent vs infantry. The T34 is the opposite, good vs infantry and decent vs medium tanks.

So in this patch, the devs have decreased the PZ1V's ai making it less viable as the only tier 3/4 purchase for Ost. Now you need to have more combined arms instead of spamming the PZIV.

Complaining that the T-34 sucks against the PZIV is a waste of time, because it is not supposed to counter the PZIV in this game.

Dev said: Panzer 4 accuracy vs tanks should remain roughly the same, scatter mainly affects anti-infantry.

The P4 still rocks every tank besides the SU-85, and I'm not sure that the increased scatter range against infantry is going to remotely even things out in terms of balance. Damage per shot wasn't touched, which is the main issue imo.

You're saying that the P4 is overpowered? Is it currently amazing at killing infantry? No, I'd say decent and sort of like the vcoh p4. If it can't kill infantry after today then what is it going to be? Let's wait and see I guess.

p4 change is great! Will be worse vs. inf (without changing it's use vs. tanks) giving more reasons to go ostwind first for anti-fantry. the more people that go ostwind first the more t-34's become useable to counter ostwinds.

People who still go p4 first will have less good anti-infantry power. Depending on how much it effects p4's you will end up with a similar although still more effect situation that the su85 is in at not being good unless there are tanks to kill. Using guards, atgs and at nades it shouldn't be too hard to ward off p4's till tanks arrive.

P4's where too good vs. infantry and tanks before.

Germans have hard enough time dealing with Soviet infantry, they didn't need an anti infantry nerf nor can Germans afford it. Furthermore, the Soviet T34 being buffed against german infantry is even more baffling, it's already very very excellent.

OPEL was nerfed way too hard. You increased the cost (substantially), while decreasing the reward (substantially), while leaving the thing with almost no health or life so it still can be killed in 2 seconds. Ummm. Yeah. Boy, I wish you would take that sort of 'balanced' approach to the Su85 or ANY Soviet unit for that matter.

Germans have hard enough time dealing with Soviet infantry

not really...grens and pgrens just slaughter conscripts, the only problem was HTD which got nerfed.
yes numbers are in soviet favour but not fights outcomes

Furthermore, the Soviet T34 being buffed against german infantry is even more baffling, it's already very very excellent.

well it's about time at T3 that we get something to deal with german infantry, or you want me to wait for KV-8 for the whole game?

OPEL change is fine, most people dont know but you can park that thing right in front of your base mg instead of in the cap zone.
It's a fuel and munitions cache for 100 munis less.

My only point about the P4 is that there are only two options for countering it... ZiS and SU-85. From my experience, even if you push the Germans off their fuel for an extended period of time, they'll still come up with a P4 at some point. Nothing in T3 can counter the P4. Sure, you can use multiple T34s and suicide one, but your most likely solution is a T34 ram and ZiS combo (which still involves suiciding your tank). And unlike the Germans, the Russians don't have any high powered infantry AT (grenades are great, but only for disabling armor). And yes, I know that shreks are expensive, but they're also quite effective.

It's just my opinion that the P4 is too good vs. everything and that I feel trapped into one build order to be viable as Russians. T34 might be good at killing infantry, but it comes at the same time as the P4, which really limits its viability... also, the P4 slaughters infantry, so I'm not sure why others are perceiving it to not be effective there.

At any rate, it's just my opinion, and I'm not one to argue on the internets, so I'll stop here. If you disagree, then it's all cool with me.

I just started to really utilize HTD so I'm curious how that will effect my play.
As far as the other stuff I will have to wait and see, no use getting all pissed about something till I actually play it out. Relic is making progress it seems.
It's funny how you can tell which side(russian/german)some people favor by how pissed off they get about certain buffs/nerfs.

What exactly is the issue with the damage per shot? The PZIV is supposed to be good vs other medium tanks (the T34/76 and T34/85) and decent vs infantry. The T34 is the opposite, good vs infantry and decent vs medium tanks.

So in this patch, the devs have decreased the PZ1V's ai making it less viable as the only tier 3/4 purchase for Ost. Now you need to have more combined arms instead of spamming the PZIV.

Complaining that the T-34 sucks against the PZIV is a waste of time, because it is not supposed to counter the PZIV in this game.

it's complaining it's not cost effective, not complaining it's not a hard counter to PZIV

I just started to really utilize HTD so I'm curious how that will effect my play.
As far as the other stuff I will have to wait and see, no use getting all pissed about something till I actually play it out. Relic is making progress it seems.
It's funny how you can tell which side(russian/german)some people favor by how pissed off they get about certain buffs/nerfs.

Its use will probably shift from "use it all the time" to "use it if there is no large enough other cover available" (often not all squad members get the cover benefit of trees/shrubbery). So it will still be good for using it in red cover or no cover areas. For example to cap a point or to take fire from a MG in a building with one squad while the other ones close in.
For most people it'll just be "useless", though: They just won't use it at all... it'll still have its uses but most people just won't bother using it.

sign...... they still don't nerf the building cover..camping in the building is getting too abusive

still waiting on this patch to download.

It hasn't been released yet, probably not for another 2 or 3 hours.

I hope the game isn't down for a long time, they said they would be doing maintenance around 6pm est.

not released yet?

ah damn...
just came home from work and wanted to see the changes in action.