OKW's Current Design Problem: The Why and How

!Did you mean those mentioned units are OP? Or they are balanced and don't need any further buffs?Jack Dickolson

OKW is stronger in certain areas, but harder to maintain and get there, if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean but try fighting OKW vs OST (OST is ideal balance goal for balance team)

What was the reason for changing how the economy worked for OKW?

Revert changes made to buy your medic, should be ammo not MP/fuel

Change racken behavior, no one likes to wait all that time for it to fire and when it finally does it hits the ground.

Make flak HT more viable, like most axis vehicles, they provide 0 shock value, by the time it hits the field there is plenty of counters. Reduce setup time as well.

As for the base buildings, I think they are fine, tho the SWS shouldn't fire at tanks, I think it should be light tanks/infantry

I know what you mean but try fighting OKW vs OST (OST is ideal balance goal for balance team)

If Ostheer is the goal, then why is everything stronger than Ostheer (even with the WBP)? OpieOP Kappa

Saying "Ostheer" is the ideal balance goal is kind of silly.

Now, saying something like: "'Soviets versus Ostheer' is the ideal balance goal" actually makes sense for a game like CoH2.

...they will be either suplement to your army (Cpantha after p4) or last ditch effort - you played your cards bad early on and thus you will risk everything in one card...

By these changes we will move calling from first order optimal build to suplemment/ all in units.

This! Very much needed! However, put them into their respective tier is better than increase CP (CP still there to limit you from getting them too early on, but if you tech right, they'll be available just in time you finish teching that tier or CP can be removed for these call-ins, actually)  (More in spoiler so it won't get off-topic too obviously):

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Back to the topic, in terms of OKW design, I think their teching choice (And the USF as well, before the mortar arrived) is a heavy risk - reward system. You go Med, you risk your army being quite vulnerable to LVs, but it rewards heavy infantry play + indirect-fire weaponry and later on, rewards you with early Obers rush. You go Mech, you risk your army lacking consistant healing, lack of indirect-fire and slower teching for Obers/medium tanks, but it rewards you with some of the best LVs in the game in terms of synergy. Same things go with the USF, but the mortar kinda broke it. The old OKW design was weird and sometimes, annoying to play around with, both for the players and for those played against them. You might think that the old system sound way better (That special snowflake of an army, limited resources with mighty troops) but trust me, the "special snowflake" therapy ain't gonna work... I mean, look at Brits! That's a special snowflake for ya. So many problems already clouding them since the first second they were launched!‎

You know, I don't disagree with you, but I refute the notion that going med truck means your army is vulnerable to light vehicles:

Raketens, Schrecks, Panzerfausts and Schu Mines.

Also, the Mech Truck has the Stuka zu Fuss which can be an invaluable form of indirect fire for OKW. It by no means deprives OKW of indirect fire. But it does cost a lot of fuel, can't ignore that.

Risk-Reward may sound like a good notion, but OKW has enough firepower in its T0 to have a backbone the entire game. Tech choice for OKW is more about countering your opponent's strategy than anything. I mean, I think the most hardfast rule to OKW teching is you go mech truck if you've got a strong fuel advantage, medic truck if you're against brit emplacements, because ISG. The Luchs is there for when you have a Soviet t1 situation (for now) or literal maxim spam.

Either way as OKW you're going for that FlakHQ and ultimately the KT.

Also IMO, for the CoH franchise, risks vs rewards are best felt in maneuvering and positioning units rather than teching and build orders.

OKW has 0 anti-garrison or anti-armor utility before techs, their best bet being placing a Strumpio squad point blank to clear a building or burst down a UPC/clown car, which admittedly, can be amazingly effective, but in higher levels of play people realize this and never let this happen. British early MG builds, for example, are very difficult to play against unless you manage to catch the MG out of position, while Soviet clown car and British UPC builds, when micro'ed well, will bully your kubel and volks without fear until you put down a headquarters or put 270 manpower on an early AT gun rather than another core infantry squad. Alternatively, snipers can really put the hurt on you with manpower bleed, especially on Sturmpios.

In the mid game, your light vehicles (comparatively) cost a fortune and delay your progress to your late game. More often than not, players skip building any light armor, as every ounce of fuel used on a more solid mid-game hurts their late-game more so than any other faction because of the relative cost of the vehicles compared to others. For example, the short-lived Puma costs about the same as an SU-76 or a StuG, which better keeps its value in the late game. Additionally, SU-76s and StuGs fill a backline anti-vehicle niche where they are generally easier to keep alive, whereas the Puma's design was to be a frontline anti-vehicle unit. An aggressive Puma is discouraged because you are punished too heavily if you lose it, and a defensive Puma is discouraged because it is outshined by SU-76 or StuG. A British AEC is 40 manpower cheaper, and performs generally the same role, while also being better against infantry. To add insult to injury, the tech building for the AEC costs only 180 manpower and 30 fuel compared to 200 manpower and 50 fuel for the Puma.

Late in the game, Obersoldaten are expensive un-vetted infantry that may or may not already had their roles filled by a well-kept volks or jaeger or fallshirmjaeger. Panzer IVs Ausf J is the most expensive out of all the medium tanks (T-34-76 300m 80f, Sherman 340m 110f, Cromwell 340m 110f, PzIVH 350m 125f) for just a tad bit more armor plating on the side skirts. When compared to a slightly more similarly priced vehicle such as a T-34-85 (380m 130f, although I would trade 20m for 20f anyday), the PzIV Ausf J stands no chance in a 1v1. JgPz is cheesy with stealth, and has solid combat stats, but lacks vision more so than any other TD. An SU-85 has similar restricted vision only in focused mode, but this also grants increased sight range to compensate. The Panzer V Ausf G is also pricier than the OKH counterpart by 25 fuel without noticeable difference in stats. A Tiger or IS-2 call-ins costs only 150m 30f more (Pershing costs 110m 30f more, so even cheaper), which is more or less the time spent waiting for the Panther to finish building. Additionally, these heavy tanks have way more anti-infantry utility and higher hitpoint pool. If you happened lose the PzHQ, you suffer slightly more than the equivalent of a lost PzIV Ausf J in resources AND the tech to remain competitive in the late game.

With WBP, it is nice to see the PzFaust coming earlier to deal with UPC/clown car. It's also good to see AEC's effectiveness against infantry getting nerfed as well. These changes will help OKW players immensely, but it's far from solving the entirety of the faction's problems. Stealth changes will leave OKW less susceptible to sniper cheese, but will also take away the JgPz IV's cheese as well.

Pre-rework, OKW was an interesting faction with character and a unique playstyle that I'd love to see again. Honestly, I disagree with a lot of the changes made over the years to all factions' techtrees to be more in line with each other as it kind of invalidates the whole point of having factions in the first place, but OKW's rework was unfortunately the one that deviated from it's intended playstyle the most and turned an interesting, dynamic, and unique faction into a cookie-cutter army with limited build choices that is intentionally or not weaker than it's competitors.

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No faction have anti-garrison tools before tech. But OKW is the only faction with T0 ATG.

No faction have anti-garrison tools before tech. But OKW is the only faction with T0 ATG.

True, but:
EDIT: I forgot USF have mortars right off the bat. OKH and Soviets have also flamethrowers on pio/engineers without a tech upgrade for 60 munitions, easily rushable. Considered it costs tech costs + 30 munitions for OKW's grenade, 60 munitions is plenty cheap and affordable. Even so:

1) To tech is the most expensive, 300 manpower, 40 fuel for the ability to grenade, faust, and MG. Soviets, for example, have a 125 manpower, 15 fuel upgrade for garrison clear, or mortars from T2, both of which they can immediately afford with their starting resources.

2) T0 "ATG" as it is objectively the worst ATG in the game, with projectile-terrain issues and poor range. Even if it were a T0 PaK 40, it's almost never worth investing AT that early in the game compared to an additional infantry squad. People can shift the puppchen around the techtree and nobody would give a damn. Even with what the game is right now, I'd rather wait until headquarters is up for PzShrek or PzFaust.

No faction have anti-garrison tools before tech. But OKW is the only faction with T0 ATG.

Ostheer: Needs T1 (Mortars) because it can't survive with Pios + MGs only (besides Call in 0CP units like Osttruppen.
Soviets: Need T1 (Penals) or T2 (Mortars) because they can't survive with Cons + Engineers only
USF: Have a Mortar in T0.
UKF: Also lack anti garrison in the early game, still I made experiences that MGs clear out buildings very good if they are also in a building.


A T0 AT-Gun is not useful because you can't get vehicles at minute 0. On the other hand you can occupy the key building of the map in about 15-20 seconds.

Ostheer: Needs T1 (Mortars) because it can't survive with Pios + MGs only (besides Call in 0CP units like Osttruppen.
Soviets: Need T1 (Penals) or T2 (Mortars) because they can't survive with Cons + Engineers only
USF: Have a Mortar in T0.
UKF: Also lack anti garrison in the early game, still I made experiences that MGs clear out buildings very good if they are also in a building.


A T0 AT-Gun is not useful because you can't get vehicles at minute 0. On the other hand you can occupy the key building of the map in about 15-20 seconds.

Just saying nobody get Anti-garrison T0, now you can invest munition on pios/engy but that's not anymorer T0 at the time it becomes available. It is true that USF get the mortar t0, I just personally not consider it as a good anti-garrison unit, not like flamethrowers or flam-nade, but still my mistake.

About OKW T0 ATG, as OKW you don't need to care about anti-tanks because whenever you decide to go T1 or T2, you already have access to it. This is not true for Sov/Ostheer/USF.

If Ostheer is the goal, then why is everything stronger than Ostheer (even with the WBP)? OpieOP Kappa

#RELICSCOPE

Removing suppression from the Kubel and making it a capping unit was one of the worst hits to the faction's uniqueness, since it's such an early game unit.

All they needed to do was make it more durable so it wouldn't blow up to the very rifle-wielding squad it was suppressing.

The current version is just boring.