Not sure if this should go in balance or what.
Recently I learned that the commando's ambush bonus doesn't properly apply in the live version of the game. Before, I thought "wow commando stens must be really trash because even with a huge accuracy buff they don't do super amounts of damage", but now I seem to notice a lot of inconsistancy with their stens' dps for some reason. Sometimes it does good damage, (thompsons are kinda my reference point here, as suppressed stens are actually supposed to have a little more dps, around 16 vs 14) but other times it seems to do not much at all. Not even sure if I'm right or what, just wanted to put this up. Thoughts?
Commando stens
25 Jan 2017, 04:22 AM
#1
Posts: 3053
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25 Jan 2017, 11:46 AM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Your error starts from using Thompson as reference. Thompson are weapon upgrades and not default weapons and thus they over-perform especially at mid.
Use the shock PPsh as reference and you will see that commando stens are fine.
Use the shock PPsh as reference and you will see that commando stens are fine.
25 Jan 2017, 12:15 PM
#3
Posts: 773
Your error starts from using Thompson as reference. Thompson are weapon upgrades and not default weapons and thus they over-perform especially at mid.
Use the shock PPsh as reference and you will see that commando stens are fine.
The stens are not 'fine' due to the broken ambush modifier in live, it and they are fixed in WBP and makes ambush very lethal.
You just have to get in the enemies face to use them, I love using them as they allow you to be really sneaky and get in a lot of wipes, anything above close range and I don't bother with the engagement which is, I suppose, how they should be.
25 Jan 2017, 12:45 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The stens are not 'fine' due to the broken ambush modifier in live, it and they are fixed in WBP and makes ambush very lethal.
You just have to get in the enemies face to use them, I love using them as they allow you to be really sneaky and get in a lot of wipes, anything above close range and I don't bother with the engagement which is, I suppose, how they should be.
Almost instant wipe out from camo does not actually help game play and that is why Wer camo bonus was nerfed (and is further nerfed with WBP camo changes.
Actually you do not have to be close they have the same DPS up to range 10.
They are far better than Shock PPsh at range 20.
Smg actually should be weapon that are good only at close.
25 Jan 2017, 13:59 PM
#5
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
They have crappy vet compared to all other infantry units so they fall short after long games. But they still have nuke nade coming from stealth which balance it out.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
25 Jan 2017, 14:19 PM
#6
Posts: 2066
They have crappy vet compared to all other infantry units so they fall short after long games. But they still have nuke nade coming from stealth which balance it out.
Don´t forget vet 3 smoke nade on retreat and predator cloak moving from cover to cover.
Kappa
25 Jan 2017, 15:18 PM
#7
Posts: 3053
This thread's point is not "sten underpowered", but was created because I feel like there is some inconsistency with thieir damage even at extreme close range for whatever reason. Does anyone know why?
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25 Jan 2017, 15:20 PM
#8
Posts: 3053
Your error starts from using Thompson as reference. Thompson are weapon upgrades and not default weapons and thus they over-perform especially at mid.
Use the shock PPsh as reference and you will see that commando stens are fine.
Even if I use cons ppsh as damage reference they seem to deal much more steady and reliable damage than stens sometimes. It's strange. Either I'm somehow missing some random mechanic like a huge reload time or... I don't know.
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25 Jan 2017, 15:58 PM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
the camo bonus in live some times make move without firing...
25 Jan 2017, 16:08 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Don´t forget vet 3 smoke nade on retreat and predator cloak moving from cover to cover.
Vet3 smoke on retreat is mostly a gimmicky. I'll rather have normal smoke nade only and normal veterancy bonuses.
OP was asking why they feel that they deal inconsistent dps. One of the reasons is vet. While most units get 30%/40% acc + cooldown/reload modifiers + RA, they get 25% acc and passives which don't affect direct combat.
The other reason is bugged ambush bonus. After WBP they will feel a lot better.
I've been recently been gifted the UKF, and the times i use commandos (infiltration) is to wipe support weapons n low model squads. For direct combat, they are mostly to ambush units after using their nuke nade. I don't expect much from their Stens.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
25 Jan 2017, 18:37 PM
#11
Posts: 3053
Vet3 smoke on retreat is mostly a gimmicky. I'll rather have normal smoke nade only and normal veterancy bonuses.
OP was asking why they feel that they deal inconsistent dps. One of the reasons is vet. While most units get 30%/40% acc + cooldown/reload modifiers + RA, they get 25% acc and passives which don't affect direct combat.
The other reason is bugged ambush bonus. After WBP they will feel a lot better.
I've been recently been gifted the UKF, and the times i use commandos (infiltration) is to wipe support weapons n low model squads. For direct combat, they are mostly to ambush units after using their nuke nade. I don't expect much from their Stens.
Thank you somebody actually got what I was trying to say. Stens are supposed to have 16 dps at close range according to coh2.hu, but it often doesn't feel like that to me for whatever reason. I'm just trying to figure out why, or if it's just me.
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26 Jan 2017, 01:04 AM
#12
9 
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IIRC you can't rely on DPS calculations from stat.coh2.hu
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26 Jan 2017, 01:05 AM
#13
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
IIRC you can't rely on DPS calculations from stat.coh2.hu
Yep. That's unfortunately true
You can rely on stat.coh2.hu to provide you accurate results for single-shot weapons (e.g., rifles), but not burst weapons (e.g., SMGs). Just click on the link in my signature, and get yourself a DPS calculator.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
26 Jan 2017, 04:43 AM
#14
Posts: 3053
Yep. That's unfortunately true
You can rely on stat.coh2.hu to provide you accurate results for single-shot weapons (e.g., rifles), but not burst weapons (e.g., SMGs). Just click on the link in my signature, and get yourself a DPS calculator.
Ah that sucks.
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26 Jan 2017, 09:32 AM
#15
Posts: 466
i really enjoy sending a squad to cap a VP and find my squad being wiped by camod nando with nade. I play mostly brits and that shit is broken
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
26 Jan 2017, 23:43 PM
#16
Posts: 3053
i really enjoy sending a squad to cap a VP and find my squad being wiped by camod nando with nade. I play mostly brits and that shit is broken
This thread has nothing to do with nades. However, I mean, if you just shove a squad off in the direction of a point and redirect your attention elsewhere, they might get wiped. Tough luck. Sometimes, I will actually throw a nade or shoot a riflenade at a solitary squad thats engaged in combat on one of the fringes instead of a squad I know he's looking at and currently micro-ing.
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27 Jan 2017, 14:54 PM
#18
Posts: 466
However, I mean, if you just shove a squad off in the direction of a point and redirect your attention elsewhere, they might get wiped.Sometimes, I will actually throw a nade or shoot a riflenade at a solitary squad thats engaged in combat on one of the fringes instead of a squad I know he's looking at and currently micro-ing.
Really ? so ur reply is i must rifle nade one of his squads elsewhere while he nades me ? LOL
do u even know how long the animation is for a commando to throw a nade? vs a rifle nade?
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
28 Jan 2017, 00:25 AM
#19
Posts: 3053
Really ? so ur reply is i must rifle nade one of his squads elsewhere while he nades me ? LOL
do u even know how long the animation is for a commando to throw a nade? vs a rifle nade?
No, that's not what I said. I said that I'll purposely throw nades at squads I know he's not microing. It was separate from nades being thrown out of camo.
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29 Jan 2017, 16:39 PM
#20
Posts: 3053
OK I think I know what the problem is. When you tell commandos to attack something while they are moving (without issuing stop command first) they spin around and then begin attacking, even if the target is right in front of them. Is this a bug? Also, can someone confirm it? I will be watching for it with my next few games.
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